100: How To Raise Children That Are Not People Pleasers

Welcome to my 100th episode!  This week I have two of my three daughters on the show and we are talking all about how to raise kids that are NOT people pleasers. 

These two have been along for the ride as I've worked to recover from my own people pleasing tendencies and they have some great ideas!  Come and join us!

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Well, hello and welcome back. So this is my 100th episode and I have two of my three daughters on the show. So I'll go ahead and introduce them. Who wants to introduce first? Um, well, we could go down the line. Okay. This is my daughter. Kasiah Hey, I'm Keziah when this show airs then, Keziah will officially be 19, which is awesome. We're super excited about that. And this is Keziah. Hi, I'm Keziah is 20. And my youngest has declined to be here, which is okay because this whole episode is about people pleasing and honoring individual ideas and consent. So it's okay. So the show goes on and you can meet my two older ones and yeah, so I thought it would be a lot of fun to have my daughters on here. They had been along for the ride, um, my people pleasing journey and they have seen it up close and personal. They have, I will totally admit it upfront. Like I know that my people pleasing has had an impact on them. And so we're going to kind of talk a bit about that as I share different ideas and things in ways that you can support your kids and helps raise them to not be people pleasers. And I want to give a special shout out to Carolina over on Tik TOK, because this was her idea. She asked me on Tik TOK. Hey, so can you, would you mind sharing some content around how to raise kids that are not people pleasers? And I thought that would be a great idea. So of course, first and foremost, you want to lead by example. And I know that if you're listening here on this podcast, you have been learning a lot of tools. And just by you creating those changes for yourself, it's going to have a significant impact on your kids. So lead by example, I have not always been a good example of not people pleasing, but. Um, I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit more as we talk about some of these other ideas. Uh, so, okay. So my tip number one is to teach kids to think through their yeses and their no's. And this is such a simple thing, you know, when they're thinking through even little things like, okay, so if you say yes to only eating ice cream and junk food for dinner, Then what are you saying? No to, you're probably saying no to good health. You're also probably saying yes to a tummy ache later, you know, but helping them to think through those things. But in what ways have you guys noticed, Like having opportunities to really think through, if you're saying yes to something, what would you be saying? No, to. Um, I think you just being like, talking with us through it and being like, what would that look like? Oh, this other option look like, how does this make you feel? And. What do you think you'd be missing out on? When do you feel bad? If you missed out on that? Yeah. I like that. Thank you. Yeah. So, so I liked that about really just cause I think that's one of the main goals of parenting is really it's our job as a parent to be the child's prefrontal cortex while their prefrontal cortex is still developing. So a kid they're just going to do what feels good in the moment. They're a little bit more impulsive. They're just going to do what feels good. So it's the parent's job to help them to think through different options. And we do this not by telling them what they should and should not do, but by helping them workshop, what would it look like? What would that look like? Like, let's kind of just explore the different ideas. Do you guys have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I think that, a lot of the time when you guys were newer parents, then you guys would just say no, and you wouldn't explain why. And I would just get frustrated and I'd be like, if there's no reason I'm doing it, I don't care because I want to. Except then you kind of, you've gotten better at like, explaining why. So that way I can think and be like, oh yeah, that's a good point. Like, you know, to help me really think it through. And sometimes I still might make dumb decisions, but at least I could. Think about like, why I want to do it, why I don't want to do it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm glad that you brought up. Thanks for saying it was one of the new. And I've learned since then. Um, cause I think that the tendency, especially as a news parent, is when we're tired. We're just too tired to explain it. Right. Just do what I say, please like, just, just make it stop. Stop asking me questions. But one thing I just want to point out is actually taking the time for yourself to even just tell your kid, you know what? I need a few minutes to think about it. Can we talk about this later? It's going to save you more energy. Because how many times are the kids going to come back and be like, but why, but why, but why. And she's like, just stop. Just stop. Just stop. Just stop. But it doesn't create any change. So actually it's going to save you energy as a new parent to actually think through your why's ahead of time so that when your kid does have those questions. You're ready. And it does take more energy in the beginning, but it saves you energy in the long run. So thanks for sharing that. Any other thoughts on that one? I think it's also good because it kind of creates like a conversation around like your parenting and house rules rather than just being, like I said, so because on the parent, because that's the rule, because this is our house. You know, and maybe even changing your mind and be like, why is that? You know, like a rule in our house, is it because that's how it was for me when I was a kid? Or is that something that really is important? And I think that my kids should continue to do and continue to pass on. And I know that we've had conversations like that, where we're like, but like that genuinely doesn't make any sense to me. Like, can we have a conversation and discuss this? And we were able to find a compromise for both of us, felt comfortable in what the house rule was. Instead of us feeling like we don't have an opinion because we're the kid and you feeling like we're not respecting your rules, right? Because if a parent is just has just these rules and the kids are supposed to follow it, we are essentially teaching them. No, you must make me happy. We're teaching them to people, please we're teaching them that, that someone else's feelings are more important than our own someone else's opinion is more important than our own, and that doesn't create the autonomy that we're hoping that all of our kids have right. Yeah, I think it really also helps with, um, Like their decision-making and their self-confidence also, because if they can make their own decisions or like can, see. And really think through what they're doing. It can bring more self-confidence and also for like, You know, if you only tell your kids not to do something, you never tell them why, as soon as they move out, they're doing exactly what you said not to do. But if you can explain why that might be harmful to somebody or why they shouldn't do that, then they're a lot more likely to. Take those tools with them when they move out and really think things through, instead of just being like, Ooh, it's time to rebel. Cause I'm finally away from these guys. Yeah. Yeah, so true. Yeah. And I had another thought on the whole, what are you saying? No to, if you're saying yes to something. And so we homeschooled for what, four years or so. And, and I'm sure that other homeschooling parents can relate to this, but because I was home and other parents were at work or had other things going on, then I was kind of the go-to parent for you, you know, if somebody had a need during the Workday. And it was interesting. Like I can see it more in hindsight and I didn't really notice it in the moment because in the moment, as a people pleaser, if somebody showed up with a need or they needed childcare last minute, or something's going on, not only would I drop everything with homeschool to take care of them, but I would also put my kids in charge of somebody else's kids, you know? So I was putting my kids in situations to where we're now it's our responsibility to make sure that everybody's okay. And then their schooling is put on hold and, and I mean, They're still rock stars academically. It turned out just fine. But it's interesting to see in hindsight, the ways that people pleasing showed up for me as a parent. And what lessons I was teaching my kids. Cause it can be a tricky balance to teach your kids. Hey right now, this is the highest priority. And this is what we're going to do because it's a kind thing to do versus, well, this is what we have to do, and now you have to do this. So do you guys have thoughts on that and how that impacted you? Um, I think a lot of the time. We would. You know, Our day would kind of be just like sprung upon like, oh, by the way, these people are coming over here and, um, you're going to have to do your schoolwork, but also you're going to have to help them with their schoolwork. And you're going to have to watch them too. Yeah. I was like, okay. And I do think it made it hard to say no, especially when, you know, if the parents are going through a lot and they're really busy or they're struggling with something then, you know, you think I just want to help them. I want to make the load easier, but it also kind of makes that harder for that person, because then they're not learning how to navigate it themselves and they're just kind of having you navigate everything for them, which just makes it harder for both of you. Hmm. That was pretty deep. My dare. Yeah, like really thinking through what the yeses and nos about. Okay. Is this helping. Or is this enabling? And, and so, yeah, so that's interesting to just think about it in terms of what am I modeling for my kids. Am I continually enabling other people and their situation where now, like they don't have, you know, uh, I don't know. I coach a lot of people, so I used some of their examples here. Uh, but one gal was telling me that, yes, she was asked to babysit very last minute, like, well, it's going to be a few days cause we need to stay, hours away for this appointment. and then she found out later it was not an emergency. The doctor's appointment had been booked months in advance and they didn't have to stay in that town, but they thought it might be fun to do some shopping and go out to eat while they were there. And so it's interesting when you really can look a bit more closely at certain situations, you need to figure out for yourself what it is that you're comfortable with and that you can actually get a wholehearted. Yes, too, because there are going to be those situations that arise where, you know, occasionally it's okay to just help somebody out just to help them out. Even if you know that they're just going out to eat and shopping, and it's not an emergency. Uh, but recognize if it's creating that urgency for you. And also if you're perpetuating the problem for this other person where now they are not planning ahead because they're expecting the, oh no, it's fine. That they can cover down for me. It's going to be just fine. Yeah. And also thinking about, Why you're doing it. And if you, if it's actually going to make you happy, because if you're doing something too, Help other people and to actually make them happy. You're probably not going to resent that because you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart. But if you're doing it, just because you feel like you have to, then you're probably going to resent them and you're probably going to be upset. It's just going to cause more issues. Yeah. I love that because if you're feeling burned out or is that full already, like use that as information that if I say yes to this, I'm saying no to my own wellbeing, I'm saying no to my own mental health. I'm saying no to me getting a break. And I'm so happy I can give this other person a break, but I'm having these negative emotions and using that as information. That. Okay. Maybe this is a time where I can say now I'm not the only person on the planet that could fill this need right now. And I think sometimes we believe that it's like, but who else would do it? Who else is a stay at home? Mom, homeschooling kids that could possibly do it, but generally there's always somebody else that could help out and just recognizing like, okay, that helps to take the pressure off of me so I can check in and see what do I need and what does my family need right now? Okay. The next one model how to say "no" and respect kids "no's", even when it's uncomfortable. Now this might look like, I know a lot of parents kind of struggle with no, but you have to go and give grandma and grandpa hug and a kiss. And they might really pressure the kids to do that when the kid's like, no, I just don't want to. You know, my youngest who is not on the show, she doesn't really like giving hugs often, you know? And, and so I'll ask her, Hey, even as a mother, is it okay if I give you a hug good night and she'll say yes or no, and I will respect her answer. And it took me a while to get to there because I thought, no, my child is supposed to hug me. Goodnight. Right. And so, um, what are your thoughts on respecting? No. I think that it's especially important as a kid. Cause I think at that definitely. Can form them to. I feel like they have to do something or have to please. Um, either parent or their friends or, you know, anybody around them and teaching them just even like with that example, like their bodily autonomy, like. That you don't have to do something just because it's an adult, just because your parents and also as a parent, realizing that it's not about you, it's about the kid, it's about their comfortability level. It's probably nothing that you did or that, you know, they don't love you. They don't want to. You know, make you feel appreciated. It's just that, that, that kid's comfortability level at the moment, which is a huge part about modeling, saying no is also modeling how to navigate it when somebody is disappointed with your no. Right. It's not the end of the world, if somebody is disappointed, but the people pleaser in me wants to make it the end of the world that, oh no, somebody is having a negative emotion and that's the worst case scenario, but that's not really the worst case scenario. But just acknowledging. So I'm glad you brought that up, but yeah, it's not only teaching them how to say no, but also that it's going to be okay. If somebody has a negative emotion, it's okay. If somebody has to learn how to solve their own problem, it's okay. If somebody is disappointed that you weren't able to help, it's going to be okay. Any more thoughts on that one? Okay. All right, for the next one, teach kids that they are not responsible for my adult feelings. And I'm really curious because. I listened to a podcast on this recently where they were talking about the parents that would be well, mommy's having a hard time. So you need to date. The da, like be extra good. Bobby has a headache or, oh, well I'm feeling sad. Make mommy happy and give me cuddles. And I really honestly don't know. Did I ever do that that you can remember.? I think that there's a limit. I do think that it's good to be honest with your kids about where you're at, because if you're trying to just pretend like everything's okay. When you are struggling yourself as a parent or just as an adult or somebody who's living life. And then the kid is like confused. All of a sudden, if you like start crying or if you aren't able to do something you normally would be able to that day. I think it's good to be honest, but I think there's a limit where you're shifting that responsibility of taking care of things. I'm putting it on your kid. Versus just being like mommy's having a rough day. I could, do you want to help me make dinner? Um, or something like that, compromise with the kid, but don't make it feel like it's their job to make you feel better or make things different for you. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Actually modeling that. Hey, guess what? I have feelings too. But I think also like how you kind of pointed out that it's important to let the kid know it's not their responsibility to fix it. That, Hey, mommy's feeling sad today. And it's going to be okay. And letting the kid know it's not your fault. You know, you don't have to share all of the big adult things going on in your life while. I don't know, I'm just feeling sad today. And this is what I do when I'm sad. I might cry a little bit. I might take a bath. And I might just want to snuggle a little bit more on the couch and that's what mom does when she's sad and modeling to them. Not only that it's okay to have feelings, but also letting them know that. This is how I choose to fix it. When I'm sad, I think can open up a dialogue. Like, so what do you do when you're feeling sad? What's helpful for you and your son, because it opens up a dialogue where then you can also have the conversation with your child about them being responsible for their feelings as well, because it's not our job to fix our child's feelings, either we can be their prefrontal cortex and we can hold space for them to learn how to feel your feelings. But modeling the it's not our job to fix other people's feelings. Any more thoughts on that one? I just think that that's also very important because of course everybody would like their kids to grow up, to be emotionally mature, know how to understand their emotions and deal with them. Because I think we all know people are, maybe we are even that person, sometimes that can just ignore things and it doesn't go away. You might hide it for a while, but being able to show your kid and talk with them about how to process your feelings. Like it's one thing to tell them. It's another thing to work with them through it, especially because as a kid you're like, I want to grow up. I want to be a big kid. Everything seems so fun. Life seems great. You have all this money. You can do whatever you want. But in reality, we all know it's not like that. So it's okay to show your kids the rough days that you're having to. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And that leads so much into so much emotional intelligence stuff, which I know we're going to be talking about next. So yeah. Very good points. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And yeah. Okay. So yes, that is the very next point is teacher kits, emotional intelligence. Now, I don't know if you guys remember this. Do you guys remember this book? This dictionary of emotions. A little bit. So it would be we're much smaller than they are now. Then for a while, then we would pull us out at dinner and we would just pick a random emotion in here and talk about what it feels like in the body. Do you guys have ever doing that? Yeah. Yeah. We would take turns, seeing who got to pick the word. So then they were learning the vocabulary for the emotion. So for example, um, dejected, low spirited, downhearted, like what does it feel like when you feel dejected and is there a time in your life when you felt dejected? And then we just talk about what does it feel like and what does it feel like in your body? What kind of thoughts come to your mind when you're feeling that way and how do you navigate it? Um, and so we did that for one of our little emotional intelligence exercises, and it was really fun that my youngest. Then she actually 3d printed any emotion dice. And do you guys remember that? Yeah, it was super cute. And so that it had different emotions on the side. And so then we implemented that where we'd roll the dice and then talk about that feeling and oh, okay. Who had that feeling today? Um, so just finding little ways to talk about emotional intelligence. Um, what has your experience been with learning emotional intelligence? I personally I'm biased, but I think that my girls are pretty emotionally mature. So tell me what have you noticed between your experience growing up and your peers? And, yeah. Tell me a bit about that. I think that, uh, I do think that. Not to. Bias myself. I think we do do a pretty good job about being, um, emotionally intelligent and even just accepting that we're not all the way there, there is stuff to work on. I think a lot of people, sometimes you can tell they're not the most emotionally mature because they think that they are and they think they know everything, but we all know that there's always more to learn. There's always something you can work on, whether it's with yourself, with your relationship with others. And I think that even just noticing how, like, it's, it's really weird to explain sometimes in conversations with, um, other people. I it's almost like I'm taking a different perspective, like outside of the conversation, thinking through why are they thinking that, why am I thinking this? Why did I have this reaction? Why did that? They have that reaction and like, really just thinking it through like logically instead of, you know, feeling hurt in the moment and just attacking to the person, but really taking a step back and looking at it from all the different perspectives and different emotions behind it, because you know, there's a lot more emotions than mad sad, happy. Like there's so many different things. And even just, you know, knowing the words to use can help you communicate those feelings to others, because it can be really frustrating when you don't know what you're feeling yourself and you're trying to have a conversation with a partner or a friend or a parent, a sibling about what you're trying to feel when you don't know yourself. So learning how to communicate those things or understanding your own feelings will help you communicate that with other people and understand their feelings. And I love that you talked about seeing it from the other angles, because I think that that's what true emotional maturity is, is understanding that you can experience more than one emotion and not just more than one emotion and more than one emotion at the same time. And that you have all of your emotions happening and then like you said, zooming out and think, okay, so what might be happening for them? And how can it find that middle ground? Like that's true. Emotional maturity. I was thinking when you were talking earlier, too, oftentimes here on the podcast, I've talked with them about allowing yourself to feel those feelings. And I think emotional immaturity tries to squash them down and it's like that beach ball that we're holding under the water. And since we're talking about parenting and that emotional maturity there, then if we're suppressing our emotions and we're pretending that everything's fine and we just keep going on business as usual, that beach ball might blast out the water and it might smack our kid. Right. Like, we don't know what the impact is going to be, but as we take the time to really think through, you know, even just naming your emotion, just giving it a name, helps the energy of that emotion to come down. So give it a name, identify how it feels in your body for just like 90 seconds and it can significantly bring down all of that fight or flight energy so that you can kind of just observe it from that more neutral space and that more of a place of that compassionate curiosity of what's happening for me, what's happening for them. And how can we come together on this? Yeah. And I think also communicating your needs, like mom needs a five minute break really quick. Can you guys go play with toys for five minutes while mommy has time to calm down? Like, cause that's, what's something you should do as an adult is communicate. Your needs, what you need, whether it's space, whether you need to have a conversation about it at some point, whether you need to take a walk and think about it, and then come back to me. I think that that's. It's definitely something that you should. You know, show your children. And again, like, I don't know how to explain it, but. It applies to many relationships. Exactly. Yeah. It's always something that you're going to use. So showing your kids that and teaching them that even at a young age yeah. And I love that you even set a time limit on it, right? Like, okay. Mommy needs five minutes and then guess what, if you're not ready to deal with it in five minutes. Don't just not say anything and still let the kids just go do whatever they want. Let them know that you're still coming back. After the five minutes, you can tell him, Hey, I still need a few more minutes. I'm going to need five more minutes or whatever it is, but, but be true to your word. If you tell him I'll be back in five minutes, don't just ditch out for several hours and just check out like emotional maturity is also being true to your word. Even if the timeline needs to change, that's fine. But communicate that, that, Hey, I'm just not quite ready and that's okay. That's also a beautiful thing to model to your kids. Yeah, I think that helped me the most with my emotional maturity was just that. Um, I learned. Um, empathy from a really young age. And I think that's one of the most important things, because empathy is how you can kind of put yourself in other people's situations and think like, how would I feel if this happened to me or. You know what not like I've been in relationships where I don't feel hurt at all. And I'm thinking, why do I not feel heard? Except then I have a conversation. And then I say, can't you put yourself in my shoes for a second? How would I feel about this? And then they say, "I can't do that. I don't know how", and I'm like, oh, okay. And so I think that's really, really important is teaching your kids empathy, because I think that was like the main reason why I was. More emotionally intelligent is because you guys really emphasize that from a young age. So what was most helpful in, and by the way, this one's an empath. So she really does feel all. But, um, so what ways did you learn empathy? Like, can you think of some things that were specific examples of how that was taught to you? Or was it just through experience? Um, Mostly experience, but I also think, um, You know, just kind of just giving an example of, or like be an example for your kids of how. To be nice to each other and how to view every single person as human. cause kids. Sometimes don't understand. They might think why is that person in a wheelchair? Why is that person not look like me? Why? Whatever. But just kind of showing, like we're all human and we all love each other. And the only way to succeed in life is to like all, you know, love each other and help each other out. And that's how you progress as a society. And I think that, you know, seeing you guys be so kind and compassionate and treating everybody. You know, like humans kind of helped me, um, Be more compassionate and be more caring for other people as well. I'm like so proud right now. And yeah, I think that that's a really important thing to teach your kids. It is that just because someone is different, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them. That doesn't matter if it's, you know, a disability or their color or what language they speak or what political party they affiliate with or their orientation. we're just different. And it doesn't make them wrong or bad or scary, or brain's going to say, because it's different this is scary and bad. And we don't know how to show up around people that are different from us. You know, if we've ever been in that situation before, we don't know how to show up. And so I'm just so proud. How about you, Lila? How have you developed empathy? Um, I think just. Kind of checking your own biases because those things are learned like little kids, they look at me and they're like, oh my gosh, That's so cool. It's mostly like, as you get into like being a teenager and adult that people are like, what the heck? Why is your hair like that? Why do you have a nose ring? Why do you dress like that? Why do you think that believe that whatever it is, those things are learned. Little kids. Um, most of the time are not going to just look at somebody and judge them. They're going to love them. They're going to think that something different about them is really cool. And so even like in myself, sometimes I know that I have biases and those things are hard to get rid of. They're hard to. You know, grow out of, but as soon as you recognize that and just working on those things so that I don't pass this off to my future kids, because, you know, we all want the world to be a better place. You. We want our kids to be kind people loving people and not, you know, judge somebody based. Off of whatever it is that they do or look like or believe. And so. I think that. Like seeing you recognize those things in yourself and just correct them. Cause it can be embarrassing. It can like realizing that you made a mistake and that you shouldn't have done something that can be very hard to admit, especially I would believe to your kids that can be very hard to do. So just seeing you recognize those things and on up to those things and seeing you work through those things to make yourself better, I think. Has helped me look at myself now that I'm older and my biases and things that I can work on. Thank you for first of all, saying that I did a good job with that. And, and I love that you said that. I did a good job, like acknowledging when I maybe had some bias. And without set telling everybody what things. Maybe struggle with, I appreciate that for not hearing my dirty laundry, but yeah. Acknowledging to your kids that, yeah. Life is a process like we're each progressing. And that that's okay. What are your thoughts on kindness versus compliance? I think we've already kind of talked about it a little bit. Um, but do you have any thoughts that jump out at you? Yeah, I think that's kind of what we talked about before that it's okay to do things just to be nice, even if you don't a hundred percent want to do it. But it's also different if you're doing it, just because somebody told you to, just because my mom told me to go be nice to the neighbor. Instead of, you know, being nice and wanting to bring him a plate of cookies, even though it takes time out of my day. And I think that you can also tell when somebody's doing something out of compliance versus out of kindness. And sometimes it's a weird middle ground and you're like, I kind of want to do it, but also I feel like I'm kind of have to do it. And so, um, yeah, just it's like service. Not everybody is going to always going to want to go donate blood. That's not the most fun thing ever, but just doing out of the kindness of your heart and not feeling like you have to do something. Yeah, and I think it's the same with having your kids say sorry to really help them understand and have them wait until they really do feel sorry. So it's not just like, sorry. And they're just getting it over with just so that they can say, sorry. And then it. People can leave them alone about it, but you know, having them sit in their emotions and kind of think, am I sorry? Like what did I do wrong? And then after they've really thought about it and really decided they are sorry, then say, okay, go apologize, but don't just force them be like, go say, sorry. Cause it doesn't mean anything. Right. And having the conversations like, okay. So when you did that, how did you feel. And maybe in the moment, maybe they, you know, act it out and rage and they really did feel good in the moment. And then slowed it down. Okay. And then what happened? Well, but then, you know, Johnny didn't want to talk to me anymore and they didn't want to play. You know, so really helping them to think through what is the full impact of that and how does that make you feel? Because the truth is when we do a lot of naughty things, we do feel super empowered and we feel super like this, righteous indignation that we did the best thing ever. But helping them to think through all of the implications I like that. Okay, next one, support their interests and encourage self-expression let them be their own person and celebrate it. How does that help to minimize people pleasing. What do you think. I think that's a very good one. And I think I've definitely seen like a huge, uh, shift in how you and dad have looked at that. You know, things that are pretty insignificant, like what color your hair is. It's really not going to. Affect anybody else. And you can talk through that and be honest. Like we've had conversations that while it might be harder, if you're gonna get a job, it might change how people look at you, but letting them decide whether they want to go through that or what they wear or what piercings they get, if they get tattoos, what they put out on the internet, you know, It can be similar for anything, but having a conversation with them and being honest, because people are going to treat you a certain way based on what you do or what you look like, but letting them make that decision, whether they want to put themselves in that position. Yeah. And I think along the lines of people pleasing, having those conversations through the lens of so why do you want to have pink hair? Let's just say. Oh, cause it makes me feel good. Okay, great. Instead of, well, I want to have pink hair because all the cool girls have pink hair and I want to be one of the cool girls and they're not going to like me if I don't have pink hair, you know, but making sure that they are not only not receiving shame from you as a parent for how they're showing up and creating that, you know, cause we want them all to have their own autonomy and be their own unique self. But then just being mindful of, but am I shaming it when they're making a decision that I don't super love? And, and so yeah, just being really aware of that. Yeah. I think that that, especially with the internet nowadays, I think that's a really good point to bring up and especially little kids cause they have a very hard time sometimes deciding if they want something because they want it, or if they want something because their friends have, or they want something because it's trendy. Like, I've seen a lot of videos of like kindergartners who want a Stanley cup and they don't actually want a Stanley cup. They don't care what cup they have, but all their friends have it they see that it's cool and they want to be cool. So I think that is very. Important to make that difference of, are you doing it for you or are you doing it because of somebody else you want somebody else to like you, you want to fit into a certain crowd? Why are you making this decision? So, how would you talk to your kids about peer pressure and their motives for doing things like through the lens of parenting and people pleasing? Hmm. I would probably, um, just talk to them about the consequences of what would happen, like the good and bad. Like what could happen if you go to a party and get drunk, like. You know, maybe you'll have more fun. Maybe you'll be more likely to talk to new people like, you know, but also, you know, you could end up with a lot more bruises than you thought. You know, make a fool of yourself, you could end up, you know, there's a lot of different things. And I think really talking to them about what's going to happen if you do something what's going to happen. If you don't do something and then also why do you want to do this? What are your pros and cons specifically? Because there might be some better like factual, but also some might just be like how you feel about it. So asking them what their opinion is about it and why they want to do something or don't want to do something. Yeah. And I think forming that baseline of just communication and trust with your kid, because I think. It can be really hard for kids to feel like they can tell their parents something, especially if it's a lot different or rebellious, if you want to put it that way, like, oh, well, I'm not going to tell my parents or ask my parents. If I can get this piercing, I'm just gonna do it. I'm not gonna tell them that I'm going to go hang out with this person. I'm just gonna sneak away and do it. Whereas if you have that level of trust and communication, that's when you can have those conversations and you know that you can't control your kids, every move, you know that kids can still be sneaky no matter what, but just being able to be honest with each other and have you trust your kid and your kid can trust you, it can really get rid of a lot of those scary unknown situations when you can have conversations about it. Yeah. Like they always say, if you ever end up you know, In a situation you don't like, you can throw us under the bus and say that we don't want you there. Or if you're at a party and you're drunk and you don't have a way to get home, you can call us and we'll pick you up. Because, you know, if you think about it, you don't want your kid paying like $40 for an Uber with this random guy, like, or trying to drive himself. Exactly. We're trying to drive themselves or going with some random person, like you don't want that to happen. The ideal situation is for them to get home as safe as possible. Not for you to teach them a lesson, because I think that learning from just the natural consequences is a good idea, but also, keep your kids safe as well. And then I think that the embarrassment of them calling you anyway is also a consequence, not just then having to figure out a way to get home, but the embarrassment would be like, oh, I messed up. They were right. I should not have done this. And they told me this, but I didn't listen. And so. You know, I think that you guys have done a good job about that. Have kind of, you know, creating an environment where I feel like I could. Talk to you guys, if I've made a mistake and then instead of being shamed for it, you can talk about it and be like, okay, so why did you do this? And what could you have done better? And what will you do in the future? You know? Yeah. Yeah. And I learned that tip, I'll just add from my own mom. I said, yeah. If you're like ever in a situation where you feel uncomfortable, just tell them that it's your curfew, because it is your curfew. If you feel uncomfortable, I want you to be home. And I was on one day where I told the guy, yep. I got a 9:30 curfew. Sorry. Sorry about it yup, my parents sure are strict. But knowing that these kids, as they're working to develop their own prefrontal cortex, but having those conversations about what would you do, what would you do if you were at that party? What would you do if this happened? What would you do if this happened on a date, what would you do? Having those conversations, but also giving them ideas as to if you can't think of anything in the minute, just pretend like you got a text from me and you have to come home. Like give them an out and then, and then like, Keziah said, you don't have to like ream into them the second they get home. The consequences, speak for a bit, and then you can have those conversations about, so how'd that play out for you? What do you want to do that again? Really? Yeah. And I think that kind of goes back into the guilt versus shame because if you get home or if that kid gets in the car and you're yelling at them, I can't believe you did this. That's such a stupid decision. You could have blah blah blah, you could have gotten her, you could have gone to jail. You could have, you know, done whatever versus being like, are you okay? And showing care for them first. And like, again, staying calm, having that communication with them. Why did you decide to do this? What do you wish you would have done differently? Like. What happened? Are you okay? That there's a really big difference in that. And again, that's going to reflect the next time that kid does something bad because of course, ideally no kid would ever make a bad, dumb decision. But of course. That's not going to happen. So. Figuring out the way that you want to respond to your kid and you want the way your kid to respond to you when those situations are going to happen so that you can continue to have that level of communication and have your kids still feel comfortable with you instead of, again, trying to hide it even more the next time, not feeling comfortable to call you the next time something happens because of the way that you may have reacted the first time. Yeah. And I'll insert something that I kind of had to retrain my brain, how to do. Um, I really had to work hard at whenever I heard a loud crash. To make it my default setting to first say, are you okay? And then after I assessed that my kid was okay, then I could talk about, okay, so what was that? What do we need to clean up? And I think though, that, that applies to so many situations, no matter how old your kid is, that when your kid has a big crash, doesn't matter what kind of crash it is. Some big mistake happens to check in first and say, are you okay? And making that the top priority will help to set the stage for a dialogue about, okay, so now let's talk about what happened. But it will create that level of safety. Rather than shame. Yeah. And I think that making the situation comfortable, because you're going to have to have hard conversations with your kid. There's going to be serious topics. You're going to have to talk about at some point, but instead of making it be like, Okay, we're sitting down, we're going to have a serious conversation about drugs and why they're bad and why you should never do them. But even just like, even though that is a serious topic, just having it be, comfortable just be like, yeah, like what would that look like? Have you ever thought about that? These are the, some of the bad things that I've heard can happen. Just making your kid feel comfortable instead of putting them in a position where it's like, oh my gosh, my parents think I'm going to do drugs. They think that I'm going to go do crack cocaine on the side of the road. They don't trust me. They think that I'm a horrible human being. It's a very different way on how you approach the thing, even when it is a serious conversation. Yeah. Just approaching it through that curiosity and keeping it a dialogue rather than like a lecture or an accusation. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Praise effort, not just results. And this one, I think is a pretty big one when parents are asking. Well, did you win the game? Well, how many points did you score and are making about the end result rather than making it about the. "Hey, how did you do, how did you feel about the game boy? And you played that well, even though I know you really sleep well the night before?", but taking all of their effort. Uh, into account, I think can make a huge difference in actually making it about who they are as a person, rather than just about their end result and how they're making everybody happy. Teacher, happy coach, happy, mom and dad happy. Yeah, I think. It also applies to academics because when I am not when my mental health isn't great. Then I can't put in as much effort as I could have before. And so even when I'm putting in a hundred percent effort, I'm still not getting a hundred percent on my test because. Sometimes that's just how it goes. And so I appreciate when you guys can... when you guys acknowledged and are just like, Hey, like I know that you're really mentally struggling. I'm really proud that you got a C because it's passing and that was the best you can do. And you passed your classes. Congratulations. You know, instead of being like, you could have definitely done better because sometimes you can't have done better. And I think it's important to talk to your kid about. You know, what did happen? Like if they messed up in a game, maybe their head was somewhere else. Maybe they were struggling with something else thinking about something else, or maybe it just happens. You know, sometimes there's not a reason sometimes that's just how it is. But talking to your kid about. You know, Y they might not be where you expect them to be. Instead of saying, you're not where I expect you to be. You should be better than this, but saying like, Hey, what's going on? You know, is there anything going on? Right. Not shoulding on your child, but meeting them exactly where they're at. And recognizing that it's true for us adults to everybody's a hundred percent is gonna have like different every day. So some days, my hundred percent is going to be like my regular, like 20%. Right. But that's just life. And the main goal being not to get all A's. But okay, how do you navigate it when. You're a hundred percent is a little bit lower than you would like it to be. Then what. When you're just running low, then what is it so much more productive lesson than I guess that you got a D and that's the end. Yeah. And I think also emphasizing to your kid to still love themselves because a lot of the time, especially if your kid has been consistently getting good grades consistently. You know, excelling, except then something happens and they're start getting worse and worse grades and they might really start beating himself up about it and thinking what happened to me? I I'm stupid now. You know, I had so much potential, what did I do, but helping your kid to love themselves through that and think, well, I still tried my very best and I'm going to get through this. And then once I get my mental health or whatever else is wrong to a hundred percent, then I can go back to being a hundred percent and I'll keep being good, but making sure that they can still. Show love to themselves, even when they're making mistakes. Yeah. Yeah. And I think acknowledging that effort, because most likely you probably are going to be the only one as the parent, that points out how well your kid is doing how much effort they're putting in. Like, I go to school full-time and then have a job on top of that. And I really appreciate my mom's like, Hey, you're working really hard. Like, how are you doing? Do you need to like, take a day off? Do you need this? Do you need that? Like, do you want me to come to your school? So that, cause I'm in cosmetology school, do you want me to come get a facial so we can chat for for a bit? Because like my friends, they see that I'm working hard, but not to the same level as my mom does. And like, she really is going to be one of the only people in my life that are going to point that out. And it really means a lot when somebody does point out how hard you're working, especially, you know, Because I try not to complain about it, but like, it is hard, but when somebody notices without you even saying anything about it and then acknowledging, Hey, you're putting a lot of work. Like, how are you doing? Or like, here's this favorite meal I made for you? Or just something small like that. It really does go a really long way. Yeah. Well, thank you. And she does do great facials. Yeah, I like that a lot. And also it had me thinking about my coaching practice and it's really interesting to see how that applies to the coaching world, to how many people in my coaching practice, they come to me as that reminder as to what they've been going through. Because our brain likes to say that this tiny little segment of life is how it's going to be forever. And having somebody outside of you, be it a parent or a coach or a friend or whoever to say "hey, I've noticed you've made significant progress in this area" or when you're feeling burned out and you're like, well, I don't know why I'm so tired, then they can say, "remember for the last nine months or so you've been doing beauty school for 40 hours a week, plus going to work after that. So you're gone like 12 to 13 hours a day? Maybe that's might be why you're tired." Because we have tried to talk ourselves out of it, then. I've been doing so well. But yeah, when we're able to meet people where they're at and acknowledge their effort and progress along the way, I think it can make a huge difference because it's not really about the end result. All of us are in progression. Yeah. And I think it's especially important for parents to talk about because they're the ones that really see, you know, most, if not all aspects of your kid's life. So even when my teachers are saying, "Hey, I know that you should be doing better than nice. Why do you have a C in my class? Why are you doing so bad right now?" Then I might feel put down except my mom could say, Hey, you've been really depressed lately. You've been having a really hard time. This happened and this happened and this happened, and I'm proud that you did get a C because it's something. Like acknowledging, like, Yeah, you're going through this. And so it's okay that you're making mistakes. Yeah. And I think everybody craves validation, right. Everybody wants to hear that they're doing good or that they're making the right decision or doing the right thing for whatever it is, whether it's. You know, oh my gosh, should I send this person, this text? What do you think? What should I say? Or, oh, should I do this today? Should I do this a day? What should I do with my hair? And, you know, having your parent and you giving that to your kid, that's going to prevent them from trying to find that somewhere else. And it's going to help them be more confident in themselves to make those decisions on their own and not feel like they have to ask 45 different people. If they're making the right decision before they make that decision. So good. So good. And we talk here on the podcast about how, what you focus on expands. And that I think is especially true in the parent child relationship. Like, as you're engaging with your children, really think about how am I engaging with them and what am I focusing on? Am I focusing on all the things they're doing wrong? I can't believe he got in the cookie jar again, clean up that mess. Or are you focusing on wow, what a beautiful art project, and then you can work together to clean up the crayons. Or, you know, focusing on the positive things. That's going to instill that pride in your child. You're like, oh, I did do pretty good. Oh, I did work harder that, you know, it's going to really shift how they feel about themselves as well when you're able to focus on the effort and the progress. Yeah. I think shifting the emphasis to be more positive or even putting it like at the end of the day, if my kid does this, is that going to be the worst thing of their life? If they get an F on this test, and even if they have to retake the class, is that the end of the world? And putting it that way and your kids eyes is going to make them feel more comfortable to make those decisions on their own because they don't have as huge of an impact. Of course, if you feel like if you fail this test, or if you make this decision, it's the end of the world, your life's over. You're going to want to ask other people, how should I do this? Am I doing this the right way? But if you know that you can make it through something no matter what, and that you're going to be okay. No matter what, you're going to feel a lot more comfortable making those decisions. They're not going to seem as scary. And being willing to share with your children, your own failures. For example, my kids all know that in college, I had to take statistics twice. I totally failed the first time. The second time I took it with a different teacher I got an, a. And I was so proud of that. A because of the effort I put into it. But it's really not that big of a deal. If you have to retake a class. It's okay. We put so much weight on it, but I've never had in all the jobs I've had. Post-college I've never had anybody say, but how many times did you have to take statistics? Nobody cares. They just want to know if you've learned and if you've moved on from that. Okay, let's see. Next question here. Okay. So the next one is encourage decision-making and, and allowing your kids to have the self confidence to make their own decisions. And this can look like just giving them a choice, like, Hey, what do you want to do today? But it can also just look like giving them little empowering questions, like, Hey, do you want to take a bath first? Or do you want to read first, but giving them some choice in the batter rather than, but this is what I said you have to do. So now you have to do it. Yeah, I work at a daycare and I see that all the time you have to give, especially like toddlers, but pretty much everybody, yeah. Give them a choice. And you'll get way less resistance is if you say, go use the potty, then I'll be like, no, I don't want to, but if you say, okay, do you want to wait in line for the potty over there? Or do you want to come sit at this table then they'll just go quiet. We stand in line because they don't want to sit at the table with you. Yeah, but finding little ways to show the kids that you know, what I trust you to make a good choice. I'm going to give you these. These are both good options. You can't make a wrong choice. Really? When it's between these two things. But I'm going to let you make that choice can help to reduce that resistance and give you opportunities. Like we talked about to catch them being good. Wow. What a great choice that you decided to stand in line for the potty, or, you know, that's going to save us so much time on our field trip and, you know, finding those little ways to offer that positive reinforcement. Yeah. I think, especially with like little kids, like again, starting these things, when they're little, sometimes like, it can be really exciting when you're like, oh my gosh, I have a mini me like a baby. And then like, as they get older, like they're going to have their own personality. They're gonna have their own thoughts. Like they're not going to be an exact version of you. Like, that's just the reality. No kid is ever an exact copy of their parent and it can be hard, but even like starting with those small decisions where like, At the end of the day. They don't. Do they really have a choice on if they're going to go to the bathroom or not? No, but making them feel like they have a choice, then. And then when they're older and they get to make. Bigger deal decisions that will go a lot smoother. Yeah. They'll feel a lot more confident that they can make a decision, which is another downfall of people pleasing, right. Is the indecision of what? I don't know what to do. I don't even know my options are. I don't know. But knowing that, oh, number one, there are options. Number two. I can make that choice and it's a good thing. Okay. Last one. Teach assertiveness and make it okay for your kids to be assertive. Now I admit I was really hoping that at this point then, Keziah would tell a story about, um, what grade were you in? Was it third, third grade. Okay. Tell the story. Okay. So I was in third grade and I was, uh, I was pretty gifted, I guess, at a lot of the times I would finish my tests a lot earlier than the other kids and so I would have nothing to do and I would either color or I would read a book. Most of the time I would just read my book. And so one day I was taking this test and I looked around, no other kids were done. I was like, okay, I'll just read a book. Whatever. So I'm reading and then my teacher comes over and she says, you're supposed to be grading other kids' papers. Why are you.... why are you reading right now? I'm telling your mom, you got to go. You got to go call your mom and you got to tell her what you did. And I was like, okay. I'll tell her I wasn't doing your job because your job is to grade like. And so, yeah, I'm very grateful that I have a parent that wouldn't be mad at me and just take the teacher's side. But I knew that my mom would back me up, which is why I was okay with calling her. It's always like, yeah, I guess what I did. You're going to be so upset. Guess what? Didn't you write me a note too, that I was supposed to sign and I turned and her note said something like I was reading instead of correcting the other kids papers even though they weren't even done with their tests yet. It was like the funniest thing. But I was proud for two things. I was really proud that she asserted herself, that she knew that no, There's nothing wrong with reading a book and that's okay. And I made a good choice that she felt strong and confident in that. But what else I really liked was that she knew that her parents had her back. That it would be okay. And, and that's not to say that I was going to, you know, My kids didn't get away with everything, but they knew when they were in the right they knew that they could come to me and that it would be okay. That mom would actually make the situation better rather than making the situation worse. Yeah. Yeah. Or even respecting how your kid would like you to respond to the situation. Like I I have a friend who something happened at school and she's like, well, I don't want to tell my mom because my mom just going to call and make a big deal about it. And then all the teachers are going to hate me. And so like sometimes the kid might want you to make a big fuss about things. If it really needs to have a big fuss, then they might tell you that that's what they want. But other times. They might just want you to empathize with them or just hear them out, or, you know, react in a different way and what they need at the moment. So just asking your kid what they need and how they would like for you to respond to that, instead of just assuming that you need to go take care of your kid, you need to go shield them from the world because it's okay for them to deal with hard things. And it's hard to see that I'm sure, but. Kids are going to deal with hard things. No matter if they're five, no matter if they're 12, no matter if they're 27 or 42, like they're always going to deal with hard things. So teaching them how to work through that, and you can help them along with that rather than just immediately taking them out of the situation and putting yourself in and you know, trying to protect them, which is a great thing. It's just going to make it a lot easier for them in the future to deal things in their own. If they start with those little things with your help. Yeah. So I'm going to be asking you guys to be thinking of examples of, um, how you've learned to be assertive or what things you remember from childhood that like where you remember witnessing assertiveness. I'm curious about that. Uh, but yeah, I think that with the assertiveness, it's really about modeling that for your kids. And I get it. That being assertive can be a really hard thing for people pleaser to do. And it's okay to have the dialogue with your kids about it. for the kids to know that this is actually a hard thing for me to do, but I'm going to do it anyway because it's important that being assertive doesn't mean that you're walking around confident all the time. It means that you know what it is that you need and you're willing to give voice to it. You're willing to speak truth to it. And that you're willing to just experience whatever the consequences are of asserting yourself, you know, but also on the flip side, acknowledging that you're also going to be experiencing consequences if you do not. Assert yourself and allowing the kids to kind of see both sides of, okay. Well, I didn't speak up for myself in this instance, and now I have all of this to deal with. Or for the kids to see, I was really uncomfortable. I asserted myself and look all the cool things that happened, but letting your kids come along for that journey. So do you guys have any. Thoughts or experiences that come up for you? I think I got a lot of experiences with, you know, guys specifically where I've had to be very assertive and I think. Sometimes it's really hard for me because I think I don't want to be mean, I don't want to. You know, be rude, except if someone is making you really uncomfortable, then you do not have to put, make being nice your top priority, you got to make your safety, your top priority. So I've learned and practiced a lot of, if a guy is being really creepy, I will tell him straight out, don't talk to me. You're weird. You know, like being very firm and not just like laughing about it and be like, ha ha. And just. You know, laughing through it, but telling him don't do that. It makes me uncomfortable. Yeah. And if somebody is being uncomfortable to you, like if you're feeling really uncomfortable because of how somebody is treating you. And it's funny because the brain wants to say, but I don't want to be rude, but then it's like, but who's being rude. Yeah. Like if they're pushing me beyond my boundaries and beyond my limits, who's the one that's being rude. And that's a total people pleaser tendency is, but I need to do it in the nicest way possible. And so, yeah, so that's interesting to point out how about you Lila yeah. And I think that just practicing with your kids, giving a firm, no. And giving a firm answer, because if you just kind of laugh it off or you don't give a firm answer, it's going to elongate that uncomfortable or even like bad feeling or experience. Whereas if you give them a firm answer like a firm. No, don't talk to me like that. Then that's going to shut things down a lot more quickly, and you're going to feel a lot more comfortable after the fact and after that's. Done with and said yeah. And I think also teaching them that no is a complete sentence. That you don't have to explain to guys why you don't want to give them your number. You don't have to explain to people why you don't want to you know, babysit their kids. You don't have to explain to them, like all these different things you can just say no, and that's okay. Yeah. Okay, well, this has been a great discussion. Do you guys have any other thoughts and conclusion that you want to share around people pleasing and parenting? Uh, I think the only thing I would add is that it's never too late to start. Like, don't think just because your kid has moved out of the house or a teenager that, well, it's too late. I already screwed it up. I can't restart my kid's never gonna believe me that I'm trying again, like it's, you can start, your kid will start to notice, especially as those things become repeated behaviors, they'll notice that you're trying to change and that you're doing new things and it's only going to make that relationship better. It's not going to make it any worse to try and have better communication or better anything with your kid? Awesome. Well said. All right. Well, thank you so much for being here. If you guys have any other topics that you'd like covered, or if you have any other questions you want me to ask my kids? They're pretty awesome and pretty smart girls. So, so let me know. All right, well, hope you guys have a great week and talk to you soon. Bye.