Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Stop People Pleasing and Start Honoring You!

186: From Smiling Through the Pain to Living Authentically: My Journey Out of People-Pleasing Burnout

• MaryAnn Walker, Marissa Campbell • Episode 186

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Have you ever had a small moment that changed your life trajectory? This week I'm sharing two personal experience with Marissa Campbell from the Art of Heart podcast. 

One experience is about learning to release the shame of not always feeling “happy,” and another about is my journey of self-discovery after burnout. 

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • How to recognize when shame is clouding your emotional truth
  • Why it’s possible (and human) to feel this and that—multiple emotions at once
  • The subtle ways people pleasing sneaks into “good intentions”
  • How shame and toxic positivity can block genuine healing
  • What it means to reconnect with your mind, body, and spirit
  • How to create a solo retreat to refill your emotional cup and rediscover who you are

Challenge for the Week

Take time this week to check in with yourself. Ask:

  • “What am I actually feeling right now?”
  • “What do I need—mentally, physically, and emotionally?”
    Then, give yourself permission to honor whatever comes up without judgment. Let it be okay to be both this andthat.

Work With Me

If you’re ready to break free from burnout and people pleasing, I’d love to help you reconnect with your authentic self. Together, we’ll rebuild your confidence, strengthen your boundaries, and help you create a life that feels aligned and fulfilling.
👉 Book your free clarity call here: https://calendly.com/maryannwalkerlife/freeconsult

Don’t Forget to Subscribe

If you enjoyed this conversation, make sure to follow Art of Heart and Inner Work with MaryAnn Walker on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode full of heart-centered insight and inspiration.

Links Mentioned in This Episode

Well, hello and welcome back. My name is MaryAnn Walker and I help people to live more fully and more authentically. And I am really excited to share with you today a recording that took place over on another podcast. My friend, Marissa Campbell has a podcast called The Art of Heart, and on that podcast she interviews people and they might be sharing some moment in time that was really impactful for them. So this might be a happy moment, a sad moment, maybe just an aha moment. And it was really fun to be a guest on her show where I kind of talked about a few pivotal moments that happened to me on my journey. And so I wanted to share that with you here as well. So go and check out her podcast, art of Heart, and I hope you enjoy the interview.

Marissa:

Hello and welcome to Art of Heart. I'm Marissa Campbell and good things happen on Thursdays, and we have so many good things to talk about this week. I cannot wait for you to meet my guest today. So MaryAnn and I have been, um, in and out of each other's lives, um, at, at these very interesting, um, way points. And, um, MaryAnn and I knew each other through a mutual friend and we lived in the same city for a little while and we kept kind of running into each other. And, um, one of the things. Things that I love about MaryAnn is that she has this unbelievably bright energy and every single time that we would connect for one reason or another, it was at this moment where I really needed a spark of positivity and not like the fake positivity, like the genuine, that's who she is in her soul positivity and that genuine connection. And so I'm excited for all of you guys to get to experience that today. Um, so without further ado, welcome MaryAnn.

MaryAnn:

Oh, thank you so much for having me on, Marissa. I absolutely adore you and Aw, thanks. I, I just wanna return the love by letting you know. I love that when we connect, you're one of the people in life that I just absolutely adore because it's so easy to just get into the real conversation. Like there's so many people where it's easy to just have the fluff, superficial conversations, but I love that you have this ability to really get to the root of things and that you're bringing that out in your podcast. I absolutely adore everything that you're putting out into the world. So thank you so much for letting me come on and be a part of it.

Marissa:

Aw, that's so kind. Thank you. And, um, you have a very interesting background and who you are and what you're doing. So tell us a little bit about that.

MaryAnn:

Yeah, so, um, I am the life coach and podcaster for recovering people pleasers, and so I have my own podcast and I work with MaryAnn Walker. And really the reason why I work with that population is because that's me. I've had to do so much healing work around people pleasing, trying to identify, you know, self differentiate rather than just being who everybody wants me to be, but figuring out how to be honest and authentic, and recognizing that I have so much energy. When I can just show up as me and have it be okay. And I know the work it takes into getting to that point because I've been the one who's been, you know, putting on the smile and, and trying to be everything for everyone, and what a drain that can be. So I love working with people to help them to find their own voice again, to learn how to set boundaries and just stand in their own power. I just absolutely love working with the people that I work with. It's my most favorite thing.

Marissa:

Isn't it amazing how when you're doing something that you feel so passionately about or like you've done a lot of work around, or like you're feel like you're in alignment with your higher self, that everything just is, it brings you energy and it's so easy, but yet it's so fulfilling.

MaryAnn:

Oh, so true. Yep. Absolutely.

Marissa:

That's incredible. You know, I, um. I would've never thought that I was a people pleaser until I went through my journey of understanding, um, my self-worth and that I'm not what I can produce or provide. And what I didn't understand is there's a huge layer of people pleasing, all masked into that. And um, I was having a conversation with a friend the other day and she said to me, she goes, I wouldn't have ever thought you were a people pleaser because you just do whatever has how it has to be done to get things done. And she knows me in business. Mm-hmm. And I was like. Yes. But what you don't know is that I say yes to everything.'cause I don't wanna let anybody down. Wow. And even if that means I don't get to sleep or I don't get to, you know, whatever, I will sacrifice myself or I used to mm-hmm. In order to say yes to everybody.'cause I never wanted to disappoint somebody. I never wanted to be like, oh, I can't make it work. And what I would do is I would overcommit and I would leave myself at a deficit. And I didn't understand that that is a hundred percent people pleasing.

MaryAnn:

Yeah. Oh wow. Yep. So true. Boy, we have so much to talk about around all of that. That's a lot of what I'm gonna be sharing today is identifying what was coming up for me and how much I was allowing that people pleasing to control my life. But it, we don't even think of it as people pleasing. It's just, well, no, if I can help somebody out, why wouldn't I? Right. It's can be so sneaky. But then once you're in it, it's, it can be a challenge to get out.

Marissa:

Absolutely. Okay, so that leads us great perfectly into our first story, which is from shame to self-acceptance. Tell us more.

MaryAnn:

Yeah, so I had a really interesting experience, and this might sound like a really like small thing, but it had such a huge impact for me. And this was an experience where I was really having a hard time, I was feeling extremely depressed. It seemed like everything in my life was kind of really in upheaval. So, you know, I'm, I'm struggling with friendships that are shifting, struggling in my marriage. I have teenagers that are just being teenagers, right? So there's just all of these things going on for me where. I was just in a really rough spot and speaking to that people pleasing piece, I was really torn. I recognized I had two conflicting values where part of me just really wanted to show up authentically, but the other part of me didn't want to let on that I was having a hard time because I didn't wanna negatively impact other people. And so even though I was really, really struggling, I was trying so hard to just quietly take care of it myself. So in public, I was putting on the smile, I was doing all the things, and then in private I would be doing my own work, trying to help myself to feel better. I was honestly too ashamed to ask for help. So I found myself looking for herbal supplements. What, what things might be helpful, how could I find anything that would be helpful for me so that I can continue to show up for everybody else? But I was really feeling completely drained at this point and really feeling low. And it all kind of came to a head for me one day when I was at Church of all places and I was walking down the hallway from one room to the next and one of my friends stopped me and he said, well, hey there, miss Smiley, you know, you are the happiest person that I know. And normally I would've smiled back. But I was in such a deep, dark place at that time that honestly I was in shock. I just kind of stopped and, oh, well that's so nice of you to say, you know, I made up some excuse and walked away.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

MaryAnn:

But it really stuck with me where I started really questioning myself and I thought, am I lying to other people? Like, am I deceiving other people? Am I not being honest with them about where I'm at? Why would he be saying that I'm the happiest person he knows when I've never been more depressed?

Marissa:

Yes,

MaryAnn:

and I was just so questioning myself and, and I recognize now, you know, in hindsight, I had to really think about that. I was really discouraged in that moment and questioned, okay, so like, what is going on for me? Because now not only was I feeling bad, but I was feeling bad about feeling bad. I was feeling bad about smiling and was just beating myself up

Marissa:

even more. So lonely, right? Like so isolating that you, because when you can't, when you feel like you can't ask for help mm-hmm. And you feel like you're, for me when I am not, um. Being authentic, right? Mm-hmm. Or we're not, even if it's bad, right? I feel like I'm being really dishonest to people who don't deserve that, and I'm not doing it. You know? You're not doing it intentionally. Like you weren't walking around being like, I'm gonna lie to this man at church and tell him that everything's okay.

MaryAnn:

Yeah. You

Marissa:

just think I can't ask for help.

MaryAnn:

Yeah. And it was so interesting that even as I was kind of like reflecting back on it, right? So I kind of took some time and later that day I just was really thinking on it and I thought, you know, it's so interesting because really when I thought about it as I was walking down the hall, I was actually feeling okay in that moment. I was happy to see people that I knew. I was happy to feel normal for a minute. Mm-hmm. Walking down that hall. It was so interesting to just see that I couldn't see it in the moment though, right? So in the moment I was just shaming myself thinking, no, remember, you're supposed to be super depressed right now. It was like I was trying to shove myself into a box that just didn't fit. It's like, Nope, I'm sorry. We're right now. We're not gonna show that. We're just happy walking down a hallway, even though I was. Totally fine and content for that 62nd walk, right? Mm-hmm. But I was trying to force myself into reinforcing that, nope, you're super depressed and you better really acknowledge that you're super depressed and you better let everybody else know. Otherwise, I'm gonna shame you for not being real and not being authentic. But it was very eye-opening for me to just recognize that I'm a human, like I wasn't being deceitful. But I'm just a human and humans have this amazing capacity of actually experiencing more than one emotion at the same time. This and that. Yes, and I could be having a really hard time in all of these other facets of life, and it's also true that I could be okay. Walking down that hallway and smiling at friends, that both of those things could be true at the same time. And just letting go of the shame that I should be showing up differently, that I should be more real and authentic. Letting go of the shoulds and just actually allowing myself to just be, not only to let myself be depressed when I was feeling depressed, but also to let myself be happy. Like, what a difference that makes. And it, it just has me think about how often do we do that, where we think, no, I'm either supposed to be happy, so I'm only going to allow those emotions, or, oh, but I'm supposed to be sad, so I should only allow those emotions. And really the human experience is allowing space for all of it.

Marissa:

All the emotions and sometimes they happen in rapid fire, like in that, like for those 60 seconds you probably were just bopping down the hall and, but his experience with you time and time again had been that you were smiley and happy because that is how you are, that is how you present to the world. Even if things were not great on the inside, I could absolutely see you just continuing to move forward. But because we're having these human experiences, right? Mm-hmm. And to your point. You, you were depressed and you were going through a shame cycle, right. And you were feeling all these ways, but in that moment, things were okay. Yeah. And then things are gonna, things inevitably go back to whatever that season was right before you, um, kind of got to the other side. Mm-hmm. But we don't give space for this and that I say all the time, like, I'm this and that and, and that's, you know, it's okay to be all the things. We're not, there's no boxes.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Marissa:

There's just not,

MaryAnn:

yeah. Yeah. That we can just be, yep. That we can be. All of it. You can just be, we can be all of it at once.

Marissa:

Yeah. Mm-hmm. So when you went back and you were, it was at the end of the day or you, we were after church and you were thinking about, did you just take a quiet moment and like try to unpack what happened and figure out how you felt?

MaryAnn:

Yeah. Oh absolutely. Yeah.'cause I was trying to figure that out. I thought, I mean, I was questioning myself. I was shaming myself. I was absolutely in the shame cycle. It was so interesting to have that self realization that. That, you know what? Me smiling while walking down the hallway was me actually being authentic in that moment, you know? Mm-hmm. I did want to smile right then. I wasn't being, like you said, it wasn't like I was trying to deceive anyone, but it was so interesting to just see, um, how much lighter I felt just alleviating the shame that I should be experiencing something different.'cause so often we're experiencing a negative emotion, and then what do we do is we put shame on top of it and then we make ourselves feel even worse. And it was amazing how much lighter I felt even in that small moment. By just simply removing the weight of shame.

Marissa:

Absolutely. And then we pour posi, we pour toxic positivity on top of it because we're like, oh, well we need to be thankful and grateful in this moment. And, and then you're like, wait a second. But that's, I don't actually feel thankful or grateful for this moment. I feel I'm in a shame spiral and I feel concerned and I feel confused, or whatever the words are. Mm-hmm. And we very rarely take time to map those moments. Mm-hmm. And so. One of the things I've really learned in this entire Art of Heart process is mapping the waypoints of your life. Those moments where you're like, you know, there's a good a, a hard or an aha moment, but we don't go back and look at those because we don't go back and look at those. We just continue to pour all this stuff on top and we're not like, Hey, how does this actually become a moment where I can understand what my heart looked like? You can take the time to be like, okay, I was in a shame spiral, whatever. Those feelings were

Speaker 3:

mm-hmm.

Marissa:

We don't ever take those moments. We're like, oh wait, we've gotta get to practice and we have to make stuff for a potluck and we've got, and we just keep going.

MaryAnn:

Yeah. And that suppression doesn't get us anywhere. Right. Like the feelings are gonna come out eventually. We might as well just let them and stop shaming ourself for being human, but just allow ourselves to feel.'cause yeah, that suppression, you just never know how it's gonna come out. Right? Because it's gonna come out eventually. So you can either get curious about it and go, well, isn't that interesting that I'm questioning my self worth and my authenticity because of a single comment in the hallway? Yes. But to get curious about it. Instead of saying, oh, well I better smile more'cause I don't want anybody to feel uncomfortable. I better do this. I better, you know, like shoulding on ourselves. I should be this way, I should be that way. But just allowing yourself to just be just it. It's just amazing how much lighter that actually makes life to just let yourself be.

Marissa:

Absolutely. So what does your heart look like in that moment where you were unpacking the hallway?

MaryAnn:

Yeah, I think in that moment, really my heart, it was. Covered in a cloud of shame. It, it didn't really want to be seen clearly. It was kind of hiding. And then also kind of like almost pushing itself. Like the image that comes to mind is remember that childhood toy where you match the shapes and you put it in the right shape and then it fits. It was just trying to sh put it into the wrong box where it's like, no, you should fit into this box. This is how you should be, but it just wasn't gonna fit. But to have all of that covered in the shame, yeah, mostly it was that cloud of shame that just, it just wanted to hide.

Marissa:

The cloud of shame is really interesting because, um, it seems to pop up for all of us at different times, and a cloud is a really good way to describe that shame feeling and that, um, because no matter what is happening, when the cloud of shame comes

MaryAnn:

mm-hmm.

Marissa:

It's gonna overshadow whatever is underneath.

MaryAnn:

Yeah. So true.

Marissa:

Wow, that's really interesting also that you felt like the things didn't fit.

MaryAnn:

Right. It reminds me of like trying to force me into the box

Marissa:

Correct. Or the star or the heart or the circle or whatever it is that didn't, the hexagon that didn't fit into it. I would imagine, um, that it feels confusing, like it feels. Like it makes you question more than just that very moment. Like, where else aren't you fitting and where else does it, you know, match the way you thought it would.

MaryAnn:

Oh, for sure. And you know, culturally we think, oh, well you should always show up as the star. Yes, you should be the star all the time, that that's the best shape. Right? Or the heart, or whatever your favorite one is. But then to see that, no, we're going to have our times where we fit into each of those spots and that's okay. And allowing yourself to lean into, you know, I think that also allowing ourselves to feel, helps us to let go of judgment around other people's emotions too.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. If I

MaryAnn:

allow myself. To experience shame and depression. When I meet someone who is experiencing shame and depression, I can connect in with them in a way that I wouldn't be able to if I was saying no, but you're supposed to fit into the Starbucks. You're supposed to be happy. That's where that toxic positivity comes in, right? Is saying, no, but you're supposed to be this way. And how limiting that is not only for our own personal development, but also our connection with other people.

Marissa:

Yeah, and like showing up to any relationship with curiosity over judgment has been like a huge shift. Um, I never felt like I was a judgy person. Like I didn't like that judgy thing wasn't, but I definitely wasn't curious. I was just like accepting like, okay. But what happens when you ask a few questions and not in an interrogation way mm-hmm. But in an, in a way to help better understand mm-hmm. What that person needs or how they're showing up today. Or do you need to check on them? Like if you ask some clarifying questions or you're curious, like, be cur, isn't it? Um, Ted Lasso who talks about Be curious, not judgmental in the, have you seen Ted Lasso? No, I haven't, but I need to watch it. It's so good. Yeah. It's literally one of my favorites. In fact, sitting right here on my desk, which for Ted Lasso fans, you'll totally know there's this thing that he, um, takes a piece of paper and he, he tags it up and it says, believe, and then it gets ripped down and they put it back. But, um, something I think about a lot is the stay curious. And so what a great way, not only to handle yourself.

MaryAnn:

Yeah.

Marissa:

Um, but others.

MaryAnn:

Yeah, and I find that we have an easier time being curious about others than we do ourselves. Right? It's like, mm-hmm. It, it's easier to show up for a friend and be like, Hey, can you help me to understand, to be curious about it, to sit with them? It's almost easier sometimes to be curious around what other people are feeling, but we don't often give ourselves the courtesy of curiosity. But to be curious with your own emotional experience.

Marissa:

Yeah. Courtesy of curiosity. That might be the tagline for the week that, I mean, it's true though. Yeah. So cool. Awesome. So story two is really cool because it's um, it's a two heart story, which I always love, so. Tell me more about finding yourself after people pleasing burnout.

MaryAnn:

Yeah. Yeah. So of course this one's also gonna be about people pleasing'cause that's what I do, right? So. This was when I was really burned out as a people pleaser. I was starting to recognize that I had completely put all of my wants, wishes, needs, emotions on hold, everybody else's emotional state or current needs. They always took priority because I'd always been taught, you know, if there's any possible way that you can make it work for somebody else, that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to self-sacrifice. That's the good thing to do. That's the noble thing to do. So that's how I'd been living my life and. At this particular point in time, I had just finished watching some kids for some girlfriends of mine. Um, they took a trip to Colorado. I watched the kids for three days so they could do it. And the truth is I was happy to do it. I knew that they needed a break. This is something I had committed to do, but I also found myself feeling really tired and burned out. And I recognized, you know what? I really need to get away too, and I decided in that moment what I really needed was to get away and to get to know myself. So I know that my girlfriends were probably super confused about why nobody was invited to go on this little retreat with me, but I decided to plan a retreat for myself. That's amazing. Oh, it was the best. I highly recommend it. So I started to just intentionally plan a solo retreat for myself. So I booked a cabin in the woods down on Clinton Lake, just outside of Lawrence, Kansas. It was so gorgeous and I was so mindful about it. You know, my whole life I've been so mindful about everybody else. I'd even traveled with other people and even traveling with other people. It, some things were a collaboration, but mostly it was me asking, okay, what do you want to eat? I'll figure out how to get all the groceries, all the ingredients to make it happen, right? Mm-hmm. What activities do you want to do? Okay, that's what we're going to do. I had had a really hard time even inquiring, speaking to that curiosity piece, even asking myself, well, what do I wanna do? Well, what would fill my cup on this trip?

Marissa:

Right?

MaryAnn:

It was all about what everybody else wanted. So I spent a significant amount of time just tuning into self to see, okay, what do I want this to be for me? And I decided I wanted this to be something that would feed my mind, body, and soul.

Marissa:

Had you ever asked your question yourself that question before?

MaryAnn:

Never. And if I had, okay. I never gave myself time to listen. It was always, well, you're supposed to want this, right? Mm-hmm. It's those supposed toss. No, but you're supposed to be accommodating. Like even when I'd go out to eat with girlfriends, they'd be like, oh, where do you wanna eat? Oh, I don't care. Wherever you want to eat. It's like, okay, well, what kind of food do I even like, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, so I've never really taken the time to get to know myself. So I thought long and hard and I thought, okay, so how do I wanna nourish my body? And I thought, you know what? I'm gonna go vegan for three days. I'm gonna meal prep and have these delicious and nutritious meals for myself. So I had all my meals ready. I thought, okay, what's gonna feed my soul? I. And I love art and music, so I packed up my ukulele, I brought my art supplies. I was like, okay, I'm gonna just go create some fun things. And I had even really curated a playlist for myself too. And so it was called Feel The Feels. And I had songs on there that would make me feel amazing and songs on there that would help me to really get into the depths of my. Soul and process the hard. Mm-hmm. And I thought, okay, I'm gonna bring my journal. I'm gonna emotionally process. I put so much thought into it. It was really kind of amazing to see how exciting it was for me to plan it. Like, wow, I felt so energized going into it, thinking this is gonna be great. I had never had an experience where it was exactly what I wanted, but since I was the one making it for me, it was finally something that was just exactly what I wanted. And I knew that that's exactly what it was going to be. And it was really interesting as I was getting ready to go.'cause one of the things I really wanted to do too was kind of. Really do some introspection. I wanted to have some time to fill and process my emotions. You know, one of the big emotions that comes up a lot with people pleasing is, um, there can be a lot of insecurity, could, you're trying to prove yourself to other people. Yes. There can also be a lot of resentment when you're saying yes to something and then realizing after you've said yes, that, oh, I bit off more than I can chew. I don't have the capacity to do that right now. Yep. And so I knew, okay, I need to find some space to feel and process these emotions that are coming up for me because these are all things that I've said yes to. I can't be upset with other people. This is something I created for self, right? Yeah. So I thought, okay, I'm gonna, when I get to the cabin, then I'll feel and process. But it was so interesting to me that it was as I was loading up my car to leave. That everything started coming up. It was like my nervous system said, oh, the finish line is close enough, I'm done. And I just broke down into tears. My car wasn't even loaded yet. I'd planned to swing by the store on the way to the cabin, and I was like, well, now I'm a mess. That's not gonna happen. But I had to be a little bit nurturing of self again, that compassionate curiosity to be like, maybe this is exactly what I need.

Marissa:

Yes.

MaryAnn:

I didn't know it was gonna hit me this way. I thought it would wait till I got there and I had everything set up the way that I wanted, but mm-hmm. Sometimes healing's messy

Marissa:

so, and, and not planned. Yeah. Like, oh, you had planned a moment for yourself, but not right

MaryAnn:

then. Yeah. And as I've coached other people, I've recognized that this is true for so many people, where it's like they can see the finish line. And they think everything will hold off until then, but it's like the nervous system just knows it needs that release. Right. As we talked about suppressing emotions, they, they gotta come out and once they see that, okay, now I can see the finish line. Even if it still is, you know, 10 feet away. That Yeah, that sometimes the body just says, okay, this is, I did the best I could. I held it in as long as I could and now I just gotta let it go.

Marissa:

And now I'm done. It's interesting that you mentioned that you wanted to connect with your mind, your body, and your spirit. Yeah. This is one of those things in the past six months, I've really been on this journey to, to understand.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Marissa:

I mean, I understood it like in like a very, like what the word means, but mm-hmm. Really. I was unable to connect. I could connect with my spirit really well, and I could connect with my mind really well, but I had zero connection into my body, and I didn't even know what that meant. And so I was reading the new Brene Brown book this weekend, which I love her. She's

Speaker 3:

mm-hmm

Marissa:

literally one of my favorites and she in the opening. And I don't wanna spoil a book for anybody,'cause I'm sure there's lots of people who are listeners out there who love her as well. But she talks about being disconnected from her body and she talks about the fact that she had, people had always said, oh, it's because, you know, you live in your mind and you're cerebral and whatever. And that she went through a, a situation that. Forced her to connect to her body.

Speaker 3:

Hmm.

Marissa:

And so as I've been going through this journey of learning to connect into my body, and I was like, oh wait, a part of this journey for me has been other people are doing this, other people are trying to figure these things out. Um. And so as I continue my journey on how to feed all three and how to prioritize and spend time with all three. Mm-hmm. I find it really interesting that in that moment where you knew something had to change, you were so intentional to pay. Honestly to pay attention to, but to give this love or this care to all three. Because one of the things I think we get confused is like a face mask at the end of the day for 10 minutes is not self-care. Like it. It's something you do, but it's not self-care. But you were so intentional about creating an environment that honored each of those, first of all, incredible second. Can you tell me more about, as you were going through that weekend

Speaker 3:

mm-hmm.

Marissa:

How each one of those, your mind, your body, and your spirit, how, how that kind of unfolded for you.

MaryAnn:

Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, it was really interesting'cause first I did need to pay attention to the body, right? So I was mindful about what was going into my body, but also I was mindful of the movement. You know, I, I think when you're processing a lot of emotions, movement is so helpful, right? Emotions are. Energy in motion and giving it that outlet. So that's one of the things I did was I just allowed myself to just dance. I, I turned up my music. I, I dance like a crazy person and it felt so good and it helped me to connect in with that inner child. I think so much when we aren't processing our emotions, like you said, it comes out in the body. And Yes. And that experience you talked about in Brene Brown's book, like I had a very similar experience where there was a time when I literally could not walk and, and I think that when. When you are ignoring your emotions, the body keeps the score, first of all, right? Mm-hmm. And so the body's going to hold onto it. And if we don't listen to the body, if we don't take care of the body, the body is going to force us to slow down and pay attention. So you can either choose to pay attention to the body and process it early on, or you can be compelled to process it later when your body says, Nope, I'm done. And,

Marissa:

and it will. It's not, it's not if it's going to happen to you, right? It's when it will because it will happen. Yep. Exactly.

MaryAnn:

Yeah. Yeah. So with the body piece, I was very mindful about doing my yoga, dancing, uh, grounding out in the woods. You know, I spent some time just meditating under the moon, and it was, it was amazing. I just loved it so much. So that's how I paid attention to my body with my mind. I did a lot of journaling. I did a lot of identifying, I, I had to ask myself a lot of questions. I had to ask myself, okay, where am I feeling most burned out? And why am I burned out? Because I need to state a boundary. Am I burned out because I need to make a request so that I can have more balance in this relationship? What is it that I need? I hadn't ever given myself time to even reflect on what is the current need right now? Why do I feel this way and, and when I'm feeling this way, what information is that giving me so that I can find resolution for it? So that was very powerful to just sit and journal on some things. So some things I journaled on and then intentionally burned in the fire. I made it a very much a mental practice.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

MaryAnn:

And then on the soul level, it was just really taking that time for self, like just recognizing what are my values, what is important. Mm-hmm. If I were my own best friend, how would I be treating myself right now? Giving myself permission to have a voice was just so healing for my soul.

Marissa:

It's interesting that you mentioned if, if you were your own best friend. Mm-hmm. Because that's one of the things that I have definitely, um. It's been really shocking to me that I cared for others far better than I ever cared for myself. Hmm. And, um, having an aha moment of like, I believe my purpose here is to return to self. Yeah. And to figure out me, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and I have lots of friends and I have more best friends than probably I deserve. And I never, ever treated myself as well as I treated them until the past six months, and I never thought about it that way. Hmm. I never was like, like for instance, like if you're tired

Speaker 3:

mm-hmm.

Marissa:

You just push through, you could just be tired, but if you're tired, it's an indication. You need rest.

MaryAnn:

Yeah.

Marissa:

Right. And understanding what kind of rest, is it sleep, rest, or is it active rest? A whole other thing. Like sometimes you need active rest.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Marissa:

And, but we don't take the time to treat ourselves like our own best friend. We don't give ourselves the time and attention we need. And then the, I think the other question that really needs to be asked is you had this. Awesome. Aha moment. When you left the cabin, what did you do with yourself?

MaryAnn:

Yeah, it was so amazing to just see how much those three days really did transform me because before Oh, and we didn't talk about what my heart looked like. I'll tell you what my heart looked like. Okay. Before the cabin and after the cabin.'cause that's very important. Okay. Very important. Yeah. So going into the cabin, I recognize like my heart really looked like it was kind of small. And Dusty in the back of the junk drawer. I was not giving it the time and attention that it need. I, I wasn't treating my own heart as something of value. And to contrast that with taking the time to really dig in and do my own inner work to identify what my own needs were. Then coming out of that solo retreat, my heart was so expansive, it was energized. Just taking that time to see myself and to identify what it was that I wanted and to give that to myself. It was amazing how quickly that shifted my energy and it impacted not only how I was showing up for myself, but also impacted how I was showing up for other people. I was able to connect with them in more authentic ways because now I wasn't saying yes out of obligation or out of that sense of duty. Mm-hmm. But I was able to say yes when I meant yes. If I couldn't say yes and mean it, I was giving myself permission to say no. Because like you said, it all comes down to figuring out what the true need is, right? It doesn't serve anybody if you're saying yes when you're completely burned out. Yeah. It's not actually helpful for them because now you're gonna be resenting them. That's gonna introduce some really negative energy into the relationship. It's actually serving everyone when you can be honest about what your current capacity. And identify. Okay. Am I fake resting or am I real resting? I remember as you were talking, I was remembering this book I read and I wish I could remember the title. I'll have to send it to you later. Um, awesome. But if I can remember it. But she was talking about that idea of fake resting versus real resting and she said, yeah, we just got home from vacation. And the whole family's laying around their, in their PJs. But. I'm also in my PJ's, but I was still cleaning out the closets and scrubbing the, like cleaning out the refrigerator and it looked like I was resting, but I wasn't. It wasn't what I needed. It wasn't feeding my mind or my body or my soul and identifying. What is going to actually fill me up right now? Sometimes it is going to fill your cup to go and serve other people. Mm-hmm. And sometimes there's gonna be times when it's like, you know what? Right now I really need to reserve that time for self. And it can be so uncomfortable to let inform other people of that. Right. Like I had to kind of, for a while fudge it a little. Oh yeah. And say like, oh, well actually I have an appointment. During that time, the appointment was with me. Right. I had to honor it as something sacred.

Marissa:

Yes. And you had to set that boundary. Mm-hmm. And also, so something that you mentioned. Is that it was three days. Mm-hmm. So in three days, your heart went from bruised, small, dusty, the thing you would find in the back of a drawer. Mm-hmm. To bright, expansive, radiant, like the sun in three days. This wasn't like 10 years. This wasn't like reading 42 books and go like in three days that you spent quality time with yourself, you invested in your mind, your body, and your spirit. You came out different on the other side. A

MaryAnn:

hundred percent. A hundred percent. It was absolutely transformative for me, and I know that not everybody can dedicate three days in solitude to themselves, but I think that the same work can be done in small pockets, right?

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

MaryAnn:

Of, of just take yourself on a date, get to know yourself in these small little ways of intentionally filling your own cup. It can, it's truly transformative.

Marissa:

Yeah. I mean, it starts with figuring out what do you like? Right. To your point earlier, what did you want to eat? How did you wanna fuel your body?

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Marissa:

Maybe start by figuring out what you like. That was a big, a big piece of my journey is understanding what actually brings me joy. Mm-hmm. And I thought all, I thought it was a totally different set of things. Like if you would've asked me in February of this year. I would've said, I will have joy when I have an exit for my startup.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Marissa:

What? No, that's not what brings me joy. You know, for me it's adventure, wonder, and genuine human connection, and I keep repeating those things and everybody's gonna get really tired of me saying those things, but I have to remind myself every single day.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Marissa:

That that is what brings me joy. Because we forget the available forgetfulness is real, and like the insane schedules we all keep are real. But now. You can point to that and maybe it's drawing or maybe it's playing your ukulele, or maybe it's just making an awesome meal that you sit down and you eat without interruption.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Marissa:

To spend time with yourself.

MaryAnn:

Yeah. Well, and I love that you brought up your own personal value system because. Truly. Once you're able to identify what your value system is, then that's when you're able to live in alignment with self. When I was living as a people pleaser, I was living according to everybody else's values. They would essentially say, this is what I value, and now I want you to fall in line with that. And I'd say, okay, yeah. Yes, your values are important, but I never took the time to assess what are my values. And when you're in alignment with your own personal values, it makes it so much easier to say yes. Yes. And it makes it so much easier to say no, because you much easier know what it is that you need.

Marissa:

Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. So you obviously continued to live in a different way after the cabin. Tell me more about what that has been like.

MaryAnn:

So great. I mean, I confess that for a little season, you know, when I was really trying to break free of people pleasing, I did decide that, you know what, I'm only going to say yes to something if I can give it a wholehearted yes. Which for a season meant I was saying no to a lot of things because I was so burned out. I'm excited. You'd mentioned before we started recording, you're gonna be launching a book on burnout and I'm excited to read it once it comes out. Thanks. Because, yeah.'cause I was so burned out. It took a while. To bring myself back up to baseline.

Marissa:

Yeah.

MaryAnn:

That was a part of my healing was I needed to get myself back up to baseline so that I could live more in abundance. Yes. But I needed to dedicate that time to me, which did mean saying no to a lot of things. Mm-hmm. But it meant finally saying yes to myself.

Marissa:

That gives my whole body chills.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Marissa:

Like you said yes to you friend. Yeah. Like how cool is that? It's the best. It really is. Yeah, it really is. And like if you're out there listening and you're like, I don't even know how to say yes to myself, or like, I don't even know, like. These women are on here talking about choosing themselves, and this means this is completely foreign to me. Get quiet, take 10 minutes, turn off your phone. Yeah, go where you're uninterrupted. Maybe go into nature or sit in your car and think about what it would mean to say yes to yourself. It was life changing for me. Obviously. It was life changing for MaryAnn. Yeah, I believe that this is like. Of the things I've done in my life and, and I don't wanna speak for you, but I'm sure you would say the same thing, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but helping other people to say yes to themselves is such important work. And it's work that fills my heart up in a way that ha pales in comparison to everything else.

MaryAnn:

Absolutely. Because saying yes to yourself, it means going for what it is that you really want, right? That might mean having your own startup, getting that degree, um, taking that solo retreat. It might even just be that, you know what, today I'm gonna say yes to myself by getting myself a, a malt. That would be great. I just wanna go to the ice cream shop and buy my favorite malt, but finding like one way per day. To really identify what is something that would really help me to feel good. You know, this is backtracking a little bit, but I do remember one day when I was just so drained and so exhausted and I was, you know, my husband was traveling, I was doing the single parent thing, and I was wiped out, and I remembered looking at all dishes in my sink and looking at my lawn that needed to be mowed, and I was so drained. But even then, as I looked at it, I thought. You know what? I'm so tired that I don't wanna do that for myself. But I know that if my best friend called me right now and said, Hey, I'm so tired. Could you help me mow my lawn? Or maybe wash my dishes? I would find the energy in a heartbeat and do that for her. Mm-hmm. And once I identified that, that I could do that for me. Yeah, it was something that was weighing on me, but I recognized I could do that for me. I could say yes to myself. I could do a nice thing for me like mow my own lawn when I was really tired and when I was doing it from that place of self love. It gave me so much more energy. It felt so good and I just, as I walked back and forth, that was my mantra was, I sure love you. You sure are a great friend. I appreciate you so much. And I just, yeah, talked to myself the whole time. Just, just shifting and doing it from that place of love of what is it that would really help me to feel supported right now and

Marissa:

doing it. Yes. Versus, versus the thing is like, I can't believe I have to mow this grass and I don't want to do it, and my husband's on the road and how come the kids are like, but instead you spent the entire time when you were mowing your grass. Telling yourself and talking to yourself about, wow. Great job friend.

MaryAnn:

Yeah. As an act of self-love,

Marissa:

an act of self-love. That's amazing. So before we say goodbye, I wanna ask, if you had one piece of advice to share with people, what would it be?

MaryAnn:

Ooh, that's tricky. I think that my advice would be number one, just love yourself where you're at. I think that we experience so much more growth and change when we come at it from a place of love. Like it's so easy to shame ourselves. Our tendency is to shame ourselves and think, well, if I can make myself feel bad enough, then I'll finally start to create that change for me.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

MaryAnn:

But that doesn't create the lasting change. That lasting change comes when you learn how to truly. Love yourself exactly where you're at. And that comes through that compassionate curiosity. It comes through finding small ways to say yes to yourself by being your own best friend, but that truly your whole life transforms when you start to genuinely love yourself.

Marissa:

Such amazing advice. Thank you so much. So, um, genuinely love yourself wherever you're at today. No matter where this podcast finds you, love yourself and be your own best friend. Thank you so much, MaryAnn. It's been amazing and um, have a great day guys.