Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Stop People Pleasing and Start Honoring You!

186: Choosing Joy: How Intention, Presence, and Gratitude Transform Your Life with Natalie King

• MaryAnn Walker, Natalie King • Episode 188

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Choosing Joy: How intention, presence, and gratitude can transform your life.

Today, I’m thrilled to talk with Natalie King, British transformational coach, speaker, and podcast host of One Precious Life. We explore how to find joy intentionally, even during stressful or challenging times, and why it’s so important to prioritize joy as part of your emotional well-being.

Whether you’re struggling to feel happiness during a busy holiday season, or you want to cultivate more joy, gratitude, and self-love in your daily life, this episode is packed with practical strategies and empowering insights for empaths and highly sensitive people.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • How to Catch Joy Daily: Recognize and savor joyful moments, even in the small, ordinary experiences of life.
  • Permission to Be Happy: Why giving yourself permission to experience joy is an act of self-love and self-care.
  • Daily Practices for Emotional Well-Being: Simple habits like dancing, walking in nature, laughing, or meditating that boost mood, reduce overwhelm, and enhance resilience.
  • The Power of Gratitude: How cultivating gratitude creates more joy, presence, and appreciation in everyday life.
  • Joy as a Lifestyle for Highly Sensitive People: How consistent practice can make joy a natural part of your temperament and overall emotional health.
  • Avoiding Regrets Later in Life: Why allowing yourself to be happy is one of the most common regrets of the dying, and how to prevent it by prioritizing your joy today.

Challenge for the Week

Create your “joy list”—a small collection of activities that consistently make you feel happy, fulfilled, or playful. Pick one thing from your list today and notice how it shifts your energy, mindset, and emotional resilience.

Work With Me

If you’re a highly sensitive person or recovering people-pleaser ready to create more joy, set healthy boundaries, and take up your space fully, let’s connect. Book a free clarity call here: https://calendly.com/maryannwalkerlife/freeconsult
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Links Mentioned in This Episode

Don’t Forget to Subscribe

If you enjoyed this conversation about finding joy, emotional well-being, and intentional happiness, subscribe to Inner Work with MaryAnn Walker on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode.

Well, hello and welcome back. My name is MaryAnn\ Walker and I'm the life coach that helps highly sensitive people learn how to set boundaries, take up space, and just experience more joy in their day-to-day life. And because of that, I am so excited to introduce to you today Natalie King. Natalie King is a British transformational coach, speaker, and podcast host that is dedicated to helping women embrace their authenticity and step more fully into their one precious life. And in fact, that is the title of her podcast, one Precious Life. I've thoroughly enjoyed both her podcast and her social media. So. Come and check her out. But today we're talking about how to experience more joy, especially when life is hard, especially when so much is going on in the world. It was very interesting, as she and I were chatting, she shared that allowing yourself to experience more joy is actually one of the top five regrets of the dying. So I know that this is a very important topic to be discussing right now. It's especially timely with it being around the holidays and Thanksgiving here in the States. So I just am so grateful for Natalie for this conversation, and I hope that you enjoy.

MaryAnn Walker:

I am so excited for this conversation today, Natalie, thank you so much for agreeing to collaborate with me.

Natalie King:

Oh, it's my pleasure. And thank you for agreeing too because all day to day. I've known that this is where my diary is, like a highlight. I've been really looking forward to this conversation about joy. I think we're gonna inspire each other and inspire our audiences too.

MaryAnn Walker:

I think so too. Yeah. And I thought a really fun place to start would be just kind of exploring when is the last time that you experienced joy and what was that like for you? So yeah, go ahead and share Will ya.

Natalie King:

I think that's a lovely place to start and I can literally signpost a moment of joy this morning. I try and get out in nature every day. Nature's one of my kind of environments where I remember to wake up and just be immersed in the sensory experience of it. And, we were do walking my dog Bella. And it's near Remembrance Sunday, so certainly in the UKs we go around wearing our, our poppies, um, and we have a little poppy for Bella and she's like running around all playful. Um, and she just looked very smart with her poppy. And I dunno, there was something about the playfulness of it and, uh, it's a lovely autumnal day. The colors are lovely. Um, you know, our hour fall]. Um, yeah. And it was just, yeah, it, it really filled me with a moment of just joy. Yeah. What about you?

MaryAnn Walker:

I love that. Yep. I'm the same way. I just find so much joy in animals and in nature, and as I was thinking about the last time I experienced joy, I was just taking out the trash this morning and it just was unseasonably warm and the colors are so bright. My backyard is completely covered in yellow maple leaves and it just felt so good. I was planning on, in preparation for this, spending some time indoors and meditating, and I was like, no, I'm gonna do a walking meditation because it's just so glorious outside. So I love that we both kind of find joy in the nature element.

Natalie King:

Oh, and then kind of leads into our first thing that we said we were gonna like really lean into is the noticing of the joy, catching joy when we experiencing it, but also intentionally, making a conscious choice that's important in our life.'Cause I don't think I always caught the joy as readily as I do now, and I'm still a work in progress as we all are. But when we have more of a, I guess, a. Knowing that it's not indulgent, knowing that, it's, it's a crucial part of life for our wellbeing.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. Yeah. I love how you refer to it as catching joy, where it's like, oh, I got some. Oh, this is so beautiful. Right. And, and it's like catching butterflies, like you're going out with the intention and, and you're just so excited to see what you're going to get. And I love that idea and the intention behind it. And I, I think this is an especially crucial conversation to be having right now. Because as I've been coaching with people and talking with people, you know, just this morning I saw somebody's Facebook post where they said, I feel almost ashamed to share how beautiful of an experience I had on my hike this morning because I know that so many are having a hard time. I'm feeling guilty for experiencing joy. And I think so often we tend to minimize it even in little ways. Like somebody gives you a compliment like, oh, I love your haircut. Well, you know, I had to get it cut like this because they really messed it up the last time. Instead of just saying thank you, that means so much to me. But finding those little ways to really allow yourself to fully embrace joy, I think can have such a significant impact.

Natalie King:

Yes, and I think what you speak to is re really recognizing, catching ourselves if we start to diminish our sharing of our joy and our light, because we might thinking, well, it'll make someone else uncomfortable, but actually the the highest service we can do is to shine and demonstrate, that joy. Because if we share how we've experienced it or, or, or just. Just to be in that aura, then it has a ripple effect. It is permission giving for other people. And yes, there is heaviness, but we can also change the radio station. And in the simplest things see that there's also always moments to see the beauty in it. But yeah, we can get in habits of minimizing the value of that joy or experiencing it and then somehow thinking we ought to be using our time more wisely. You know, we have this productivity bias, and I've done it myself. I've been in a moment of like, you know, just enjoying sitting with the book or something, and then all of a sudden I think I need to be doing something more important, whatever important might be. So sometimes it's almost like our nervous system we have to train it to be more familiar in the okayness of the joy because society or habits might pull us in a different direction.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why I was so excited to collaborate on this specific subject with you, because as I've watched your feed, so you did a reel recently where you were playing in the leaves and taking pictures, and I found myself grinning from ear to ear. I did not realize how much I needed to see joy and playfulness and levity until I noticed my own reaction to that. And so I love how you're talking about, no, like we're doing the world a disservice if we're muting that because. People are attracted to that. People need that. It's what makes it more sustainable for our nervous system is injecting these moments of joy, right? It's like inoculating ourselves against all of the hard things that we're seeing in life when we can just be like, okay, how am I going to get my daily dose and where might I go for that?

Natalie King:

Yes. Like really building it into an important factor of your thriving and your success. I love that you spotted that, that reel and it was, it really was a joyful day. It was a photo shoot I had and there was like, you know, all, all these leaves and it was playful and there's something we forget, we. We forget to be playful. I forget to be playful.'Cause life can feel very serious. And yes, there are challenges and I'm not dismissing, devaluing any of, the challenge and the heaviness the people might be experiencing in the collective experience right now. And, it's like the small things. It's like, well, coming back to the small things we were saying, you know, there's the scope to find it in the small accessible things. And like, just like you said, how that impacted you and made you question and just think, ah, I need some of that. And I hope that this conversation will inspire people to also get some of that for themselves and also recognize its importance.

MaryAnn Walker:

Absolutely, and I think it all starts with just allowing ourselves to experience it, giving ourselves that permission. I think too often we think, no, it's too childish to crunch the leaves or no, that would be silly to go and do that or to, go be playful with my pet in the park, and what are people going to think if I'm being silly? We suppress so much of it, but if we just allow ourselves to enjoy. It was interesting. I was talking with my daughter who recently went to a big Halloween party, and it was interesting for her to compare and contrast that she just decided to show up and have a good time and to not worry about what people would think if she got in the middle of the dance floor and started busting a move. And it was interesting for her to notice that, oh, and those people over there, they're just sitting there. And she recognized that, oh, I'm so grateful that I'm here in this moment that i'm not worried about that, that I'm giving myself permission to enjoy myself, and it was just such an interesting visual contrast there. And you had actually told me something when we first started talking about collaborating that I'm hoping that you'll share, but you had talked about the regrets of the dying. Will you share a little bit about

Natalie King:

Yes. So, um, someone amazing called Bonnie Ware. She, was Australian, is an Australian, writer, author, but she spent quite a bit of time with people in a hospice in their end of life care. During this time she did numerous, hundreds of interviews with, patients in their final days and it was just conversations over, over a cuppa, to sort of explore all the things about their life and what they were proud of, but also specifically regrets. And a huge piece of research was done off the back of this, and it's culminated in a book called The Five Regrets of the Dying. But number five on that list was that I wish I'd let myself be happier. Number one was, I wish I'd been more true to myself. I mean, you could spend, we could spend, if we could, I mean, I'm getting ideas about doing a whole series on, on all the five, but there's something around this. I, I wish I'd let myself be happier. And it speaks to this permission giving that you have just mentioned, giving ourselves permission just like your daughter was, dance like no one was watching just for her enjoyment, and not snap herself off from that joy and, oh, you must be so proud of your lovely daughter at a young age. Choosing when it's so, there's so much pressure of, mm-hmm.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah.

Natalie King:

How to be seen, uh, and, and to sort of, to notice the choices available.'cause this is about choice, isn't it?

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. Yeah. And choosing into it, making it an intentional choice that, how is it that I wanna show up today? I had heard something recently where somebody was talking about the difference between a mood and a temperament, and they said that a temperament is simply a mood that you've chosen to practice enough, that it becomes a part of you. Isn't that beautiful, especially as it applies to joy

Natalie King:

Yes.

MaryAnn Walker:

that you can choose into joy, and once you do it enough times, it becomes a part of who you are and how you show up in the world.

Natalie King:

Oh, I love that. I love that because we are what we repeatedly do. We are not predisposed, I don't believe to any one way of being, but we will be how we continually show up in our being and whatever habits we daily do or do not do. We will create like grooves in our neural pathways of some things that feel easier and some things that feel less easy, and the things that have been hard worn over time will just feel super familiar, even if they don't necessarily deliver the most joy. And so there really is something about what you are saying is the intention and the practicing and knowing that the more we do something, the more we can craft that groove, I suppose, and make it part of our temperament.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah, absolutely. And it's not so much, I think sometimes we shame joy because we have this, you know. This or that mentality, and we think, well, I can't be joyful because there's hard things happening, but to step into, no, this and this, that I can experience so much joy going and walking through the leaves and enjoying all of the beautiful colors. And there can still be hard things in the world. It doesn't mean that that those things are diminished. It's no, I'm going to fully embrace all of it. I'm not going to shame my joy because there's hard things happening. I'm going to choose intentionally to practice finding those joyful moments, even when it's hard because I know that that's what's going to help me to have that resilience through the hard times as well.

Natalie King:

Yes. And this piece around levity within that, it, it's really healthy for us. Laughter it's proven scientifically is really good for us. Not to mention our whole other, you know, things and I'm sure as we we go on, we'll kind of add to our, our list. I think that's just like so powerful to remember.

MaryAnn Walker:

Well, and I think that what you just said about just even letting yourself laugh, it leads into the second point that we wanted to discuss. Creating that joy every day and that it doesn't have to, we don't have to wait for a big, grand experience, but we can find it in those little moments, like just maybe part of your practices that you do want to have like a laughing meditation where I'm just gonna laugh for 10 minutes, just see how it changes my body.

Natalie King:

I mean, just you even saying that's funny,

MaryAnn Walker:

Right? Like.

Natalie King:

but, but yes, it's contagious that that giggling, isn't it? And yeah, it's really good for our nervous system, like whether it's laughter or not. I mean, there is research about how many times a day little children laugh and it's kind of hundreds, hundreds. And then they do the comparative research with, with adults. And sadly, someone's not laughing even once in a day.

MaryAnn Walker:

Mm-hmm.

Natalie King:

But it's so important for our, our nervous system. So yeah, whether it's after, it's these everyday things. I love dancing. And I've started dancing more. I know that it's important for me. Part of the things that I'm really seeing as important for me this year is just coming into my body more, moving, more listening to the wisdom of my body and my body likes to dance. And,, I think because I wasn't going anywhere to dance, I forgot to do it.

MaryAnn Walker:

Hmm.

Natalie King:

I don't know why I just wasn't dancing around my house or just dancing because of it. So back to creating intentional practices to make it a habit to recognize I don't need an occasion to dance, I just can take a dance break. I've been doing that and I've found it so helpful, maryAnn. It's just such a a shift, of that attitude in a moment. And so literally, I mean this, you know, this won't suit everyone, but at the end of my day, I put my headphones in and I just dance around the bedroom for a couple of tunes. Normally something quite uplifting, and in my mind, I'm going through i'm recognizing and celebrating myself for the, acknowledging the day, because very often it gets forgotten because I go to bed and, you know, onto the next, but there's a moment of just dancing in my body and recognizing even the small things like just making dinner or taking a break with a coffee or having a conversation with a friend or finishing something at work that I'd been procrastinating and, and it's just. Just this moment of recognition in my body dancing and it's joyous. And in that moment I shift. And just to let you know, it's not just an end of day thing. There was, the other day come back from holiday and I don't know, you know, sometimes after holiday you just think, oh, I've got all this stuff to do and, and I looked at my diary for the week ahead and it looked overwhelming. It really wasn't as overwhelming. It's this week we're in now, it's not overwhelming, but you know, sometimes your perspective just reads overwhelm, even if it's not true. And I'd kind of got myself in a place and I didn't notice it as quick as I would've liked, but eventually I noticed, hang on a minute, I need to move. And I literally got myself up, put my earphones in, just did my dancing, and I felt completely different. And what felt overwhelming before, seemed manageable and nothing had changed with my diary. But the dancing and this embodiment and the seeking out a moment of joy and levity just changed the entire experience.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah, absolutely. It has me thinking about, you know, the emotion is energy in motion, and so whether you're trying to process a hard emotion or invite in a positive emotion, or did I say that right? Process a negative emotion or invite in a positive emotion, then just being mindful about how. Do I want to do that in my body? And I love that you dance and I'm thinking how much just turning on some music and dancing while you're doing the mundane can make it so much more joyful, be it making a bed or cooking or sweeping. And I confess that before this call then. I also enjoy dancing, but before this then I was jumping on my mini trampoline and getting myself hyped up and it's so amazing how just those little things, I mean I was only on there for a couple of minutes, but it helps to shift the energy. And when you talked about all of the things in your diary on your to-do list of what you need to do, it's so interesting'cause I noticed that for myself too, that when I'm experiencing overwhelm. If I can just take some time to get out into nature, to jump, to dance, to sing, to play the ukulele, to do something. It's so interesting how much that changes how I view my list, where my list can go from being so overwhelming to look, I only have three things I have to do today, but that the, the list hasn't changed, but my weight and my mental energy around it has.

Natalie King:

It is like magic.

MaryAnn Walker:

Mm-hmm.

Natalie King:

And there is a little miracle, just that the miracle of perspective,

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah.

Natalie King:

and it doesn't have to take along this joy, this levity, the getting in our body, whatever the root may be, and it's different for everyone. We're all different, but it doesn't have to be a holiday or a complete escape from life. It can just be a moment of presence.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. So just for fun, I'm really curious if you had to pick three things. You've already talked about dancing, so it's okay if you wanna include that. But what three things do you find you can really rely on and turn to in your day-to-day life that really help you to shift that energy into that joy?

Natalie King:

So, um, I have to include nature and I know I referred to it before, um, but there's something, that just helps me move into an awareness of more than myself. So there's moments of awe of listening, you know, to birds or, you know, so there's, there's, there's being out in nature. There's the dancing. I do also just love to sit and read,

MaryAnn Walker:

Hmm

Natalie King:

Just sit with a book to just have a, a relationship, either with a fiction or nonfiction, something very often it's something inspiring

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah,

Natalie King:

and good coffee.

MaryAnn Walker:

yeah, yeah. It's really those little things, right? It's just. So wonderful to just even take the time to just think on what does bring me joy, and then let yourself thoroughly enjoy it. Right? Because it's gonna be a very different experience, like with your cup of coffee if you're just drinking it quick to just get on with your day versus this is my joyful moment and I'm going to really give myself permission to enjoy it. Even that can create such a shift.

Natalie King:

Yes. And you know, yes, of course I could say big holidays and spa days and yes to all of that and bubble baths. But, my go-tos were actually the smaller things. What, what about you?

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah, well, very similar to you. I think that we're very similar. It's probably why we're doing this together'cause we just resonate. But yeah, for me it's that I know that I need to take some time to even just to sit and to breathe. I enjoy being in nature. Setting a cozy fire. Yeah, like you said, even delicious food can be fun or intentionally starting a conversation with a friend, like, oh, who can I talk to today? I've noticed that there's some people where I just wanna talk to'em because I just feel so much better once the conversation is done, we just resonate. And so it is kind of amazing to just think about those little things. Make a list. Your go-to list. So then when you are having a hard time reminding yourself that yes, that and this, look at my list of all of these amazing things that I could participate in. Sometimes it's interesting too for me to even think, okay, well I could take a 30 minute walk in nature, or I just turn on, like you had talked about, i'm gonna listen to one of my favorite songs on my playlist and dance for just one song. It's not gonna take a lot outta my day. I could do it on my lunch break, but that those little things can have such a significant impact, is just really it. It's inspiring for me to just really think that, wow, I cannot believe that that five minute song had such a big shift on how it is that I'm showing up and how I'm feeling.

Natalie King:

Yeah, and, and it can feel like magic just because it's like, oh my God, I was like this. And now I'm like, you know, the whole experience has shifted. And I have in my mind. I used to have it written down, but now I kind of, after practicing it for, it's very, it's very clear my thing's on my love list. I call it my love list. But yeah, if anyone listening has not yet got their own love list, it really merits just spending a bit of time leaning in to the things that you can access in your day to help bring you joy and inter disperse intentionally and deliberately, more moments To allow this to be part of your day, and if we really lean into a question like, what does a successful life feel like to you, a meaningful life, feel like to you when we are not talking about the numbers, uh, or linear or, you know, anything like that, if we are talking about the language of the heart, well, Joy's gonna be in there

MaryAnn Walker:

Mm-hmm.

Natalie King:

and let's not leave it too late to unlock that. That vital part of what it is to be human and connect to that as our birthright.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah, I think it's beautiful that you call it your love list because it is an act of self-love to allow yourself to experience that joy, to even just pick one thing off of your love list, even if you're only able to do one thing in a day, to pick one thing and see if it makes a difference for you. See if it impacts your mood, and then notice how practicing that can impact how it is that you show up generally in the world. But it starts with identifying those things for yourself and identifying. I think also it's helpful to notice in the body that, wow, how does this feel? Ooh, this feels pretty good. I'm gonna let myself feel this a little bit more. This feels so amazing, but becoming more familiar with the emotion of joy making it your friend, somebody that's familiar to you.

Natalie King:

Yes. And um, just to add to that, you know, if it's not something you are regularly leaning into almost anticipate that the unfamiliar, your nervous system might wanna get you out there because we need to let our bodies, our nervous systems, know that it's safe, it's safe to participate in this. It's actually a great thing and good for me. But if we are not in the habit or if we have like a, a productivity bias, we thought, oh no, I haven't got time for that. We can kind of dismiss and, and knock it off the list. So, yeah, even if it feels a little bit un blissful, but also uncomfortable, like, stay with it. It's all, it's all good. It's all in the service of your highest.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah, I'm so grateful that you pointed that out because it can be a little uncomfortable in the beginning, especially if it's something that you haven't practiced. If it's unfamiliar to you, like dancing, like nobody's watching, it's gonna feel uncomfortable, and then you might notice that as you practice it, other people will be inspired. Other people will want to come and join you on the dance floor. It is a little uncomfortable when it isn't something that you practice, but being willing to be a little bit uncomfortable as you work to cultivate that.'cause you're right, it is this and that. Even as you're cultivating joy, it's, it's gonna be a little uncomfortable and it's worth it to me to practice that joy. So I'm so glad that you brought that up.

Natalie King:

Oh, and it's that, and again, isn't it? It's all things, it's all good. Um, oh, I'm just like loving all, all these things and I just wanted to also catch something that came to mind about, you know, this piece leaning into self love, it's really self honoring. You know, noticing the importance of your joy and giving it value. And I really see this link building for me, the more I honor myself and listen to what's important and safeguard some time for it. And it doesn't need to be long time, but I, I feel that it then builds myself trust. It builds my self-worth because I'm not abandoning myself, I'm choosing me, but it in that resilience building and that self-honoring, I'm able to contribute more. It doesn't take me away from this piece around productivity. You know, if someone's thinking, well, I haven't got time for that, it's actually nurturing us such that we can come to our lives more powerfully

MaryAnn Walker:

Hmm. That is beautiful. Oh my goodness. And I love how you said, if you value it. Then you'll prioritize it, right? If you value it, if you actually value experiencing joy, why not invest in it and cultivate more of it? And it was beautiful to me too, how you said no. That's what's self-honoring about it. I hadn't ever considered that before, that not allowing myself to experience joy was actually devaluing self because it's not self-nurturing to mute that, but to nourish yourself with joy is self-honoring. That was just beautifully said. Thank you for that.

Natalie King:

and anything that isn't self-honoring is in the direction of self abandonment.

MaryAnn Walker:

Hmm.

Natalie King:

Um, yeah.

MaryAnn Walker:

So

Natalie King:

mean, what a world if we had more people stepping into their fullest, their highest, their most joyful self, and you know, we, if we show up to life with more joy in our hearts, we send ripple effects of more peace and compassion and understanding. It's in the direction of creating better worlds, isn't it?

MaryAnn Walker:

Hmm. So true. Yeah, and I think that with the idea of creating a better world, I wanna lead into our third point that we wanted to talk about, which is kind of the correlation between joy and gratitude. I. So, yeah, tell me a bit about how gratitude has shifted things for you, and I'm curious about how gratitude maybe also plays into your love list.'cause when I kind of think of gratitudes as a love list as well.

Natalie King:

Yes. And um, I hadn't thought about my love list as gratitudes, but actually, if you think about all the things that I mentioned on my list, it's moments where I come back to the present moment and in the present moment. there is a greater appreciation. And I think the sacred, the beauty it's in it's in everything, isn't it? And, we can't be in gratitude and appreciation and also be in anger or overwhelm. It's not possible. When you are in gratitude. It is like a doorway to a higher level experience. It shifts our perspective, and even in difficult things like heartbreak or grief, we can find gratitude for the love that may be existed. Also the learning, even if it's hard, that we are wiser as a result. And sometimes when things are raw, we might not see it immediately, but even in the most difficult of scenarios, we can find gratitude. And in the every day, in the mundane, in the sweeping the leaves or the, or the looking up at the sun and feeling it on your face. Um. Yeah. What about you?

MaryAnn Walker:

I don't know if I can top what you said. That was beautiful. No, no. It is interesting for me to think about though the things that I, that do bring me joy. They also do create those feelings of gratitude where it's like, oh, I'm just so grateful that I can step outside and just feel the sun on my face. I'm so grateful that I can see the beautiful leaves. I'm so grateful for these friendships that I'm cultivating for these kind of beautiful, deep, meaningful conversations. The, the things that the soul yearns for that. Yeah, it brings me joy and I think that they're very much correlated that they bring me joy because they're things that I am just so grateful to have and actually placing that value in, I'm going to intentionally express gratitude and what's gonna happen when you're expressing gratitude, you're going to be experiencing joy and you're going to be spreading joy. And I think that they're just so tightly bound, that the more we cultivate one, the other can't help but come along.

Natalie King:

Yes, and it's like then the snowball effect, isn't it? Because there is momentum. We might forget, because we all do, we get engrossed in something and other things appear urgent. But the more we're doing it as a practice and creating some more momentum and permission giving and leaning into our love list. Then we catch ourselves quicker when we go off track. Just like I caught myself the other day when things were overwhelming and, and don't get me wrong, like I teach this stuff and I still get lost. You know, and I, no doubt you do, because we all works in progress. But what I find is the more we lean into this and discover this for ourselves and go on this journey, that we are just quicker, quicker to, quicker to spot. Um, when we go off track, get a little bit more savvy to question the thinking that might have us do something different apart from laugh at ourselves. So there's a elevated discernment I think that comes when we. Start the, snowball of joy and gratitude and, and even my, like, dancing in the evening when I'm enjoying that, I'm, I'm being grateful for the day. It's like the other side of the coin.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. Well, and it has me thinking how much gratitude really can be a bridge towards joy. That if someone is in a place right now where they're having a really hard time even remembering what joy feels like. They're wondering, okay, well I don't even know what brings me joy anymore. Then taking that time to think about and what am I grateful for, I think can be such a beautiful bridge and connecting point to be able to access joy again. To just be thinking about, yeah, okay. What things am I grateful for in my day-to-day life? Can yeah, shift that energy?

Natalie King:

I love that and also in saying that it really,. It's the point about it not being in a doing,'cause some of the examples we've talked about could have us thinking that joy is in the doing. But actually it's found in that presence, the present moment awareness. And that's the thing that gratitude does because it opens a will window for us to experience awe and appreciation, which by its very nature it gets us in with that, now, um, and yeah, that's what came up to me when you, when you said, I thought, ah, yes. Yeah. It's in the, it's in the who we be. And if we can cultivate more of that gratitude, we can start to connect, reconnect, if we haven't connected for a while with the part that we all have, you know, everyone has access to this. It's not, it's not only for the few. We all as our birthright can, we just need to listen a bit.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah, I love that differentiation of the doing versus the being. But yes, joy can be something that you do and actively cultivate. And it's an emotion that we can learn and become more familiar with and just be. Like, what would it look like to just be in joy, to embody joy and you don't even have to do anything. I mean, we all know those people that just seem like walking sunshine and it's like, how do they do that? And they're not even doing anything. They're just grocery shopping. But it's like, wow, they're amazing. And it's like, yeah, it's because they have become the embodiment of joy.

Natalie King:

It's back to the temperament, isn't it? What you were saying And um, as you were saying about, those individuals, they like the sunshine. And um, now I dunno whether this is myth or not, but I read that sunflowers follow the sun. So, you know, they move over the day, the sun, they're following the sun because the sun is what nourishes them and they're putting their attention on the thing that helps them thrive. And I guess what we are pointing to here is inviting people to put their attention on this, self nourishing piece that is completely linked to our highest wellbeing and thriving. So yeah, like the sunflower, let's just put our attention, on that, which brings us more sun. And, and you know, the clouds come by as well, but the sun hasn't disappeared. It's still there. So there's still a knowing it'll come back. And in the meantime I'll just look after myself while I'm waiting to the clouds to, you know, or the storm to pass.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. So I used to live in Kansas, which is known as the Sunflower State, so that's a hundred percent true. They do follow the sun.

Natalie King:

That's amazing.

MaryAnn Walker:

It is true. Yeah. And, and I love that visual too, of all these things are happening in the world and I'm gonna choose to focus on this. Like, it reinforces that visual helps to reinforce the idea of how much intention can impact us. And, and I was thinking too about, you know, the clouds and the storms and sometimes they come and like you mentioned, we can learn from them, we can grow from them. Like maybe that's exactly what's watering us. Even though it may be really uncomfortable in the moment that even those hard things can, we can find joy and gratitude in them as we look for the lessons, as we appreciate that my grief is so deep because my love was so deep and looking for those things, trying to, to find that silver lining.

Natalie King:

Oh, that's so, that is so beautifully put. Well, I can't say anything to top that. But, um,'cause I think that feels like a beautiful place to kind of,, bookmark this beautiful conversation. And I have to say, I've had goosebumps pretty much through the whole conversation, which is my sign, my little sign to me that I'm doing the thing that feels most aligned and true and joyous. So, I dunno when anyone else gets that. I think I, I rather like, it's not the cold, it genuinely is. It's sort of like, ah, this is, this is my soul's loving this. Um.

MaryAnn Walker:

And I love that you're so in tune that your body even feels it has a reaction to it. I love that. That's beautiful.

Natalie King:

So, um, MaryAnn, I, I feel that this is the first of many more conversations. But to kind of, wrap this one up, for any of my listeners who wanna find out more about you and your work and, yeah, say maybe a little bit about how they can find out more and get in touch with you.

MaryAnn Walker:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So I also have a podcast, it's called Inner Work with MaryAnn Walker, and it's a podcast for the empaths The highly sensitive people and recovering people pleasers. And so I help people learn how to state boundaries, take up space, and just find more joy in their life. And so you can listen to my podcast or you can find me on Instagram and TikTok and facebook@MaryAnnwalker.life. So come and find me there. And how can my audience connect with you?

Natalie King:

Um, well, I have my own podcast. It's called This One Precious Life. And I talk about all things. Authenticity, wellbeing. But really it's very similar to you coming to life and embracing this one precious life, in a way that feels true. you know, bolder less stress and more joy. I lean into a lot about self-love and this self-honoring and how we can thrive more in our lives. So that's this one, precious life. And if any of your listeners want to, join my, the remembering, a monthly free monthly women's circle, I hold, it's called the remembering because this piece around remembering to remember being. Kind of we're gonna go off track, but when we come together and remember together, our power, our voice, what's important. So yeah, if anyone fancies a coming along to that, then my, I'm Natalie king.net, my website, I'm sure it'll be in your show notes. And, at this one Precious Life on Instagram. But yes, I'm, would love to, meet any of your community that's curious to join, join me there. And, and in on Joy or anything else related to our conversation or beyond. Is there any final words you wanted to share? MaryAnn?

MaryAnn Walker:

I just honestly want to just express gratitude to you for just being here. You do have that light, you do have so much sunshine energy, and so I appreciate just everything that you're putting out into the world. I wanna tell everybody, I will put all of her contact information in the show notes, but if you wanna catch joy and just kind of be like surprised by a joyful moment, then make sure you're following Natalie on her Instagram, because that's just the energy that she puts out. But being intentional, I guess that that's what I would sum up with is, is my hope is that we can all just be a little bit more intentional about finding joyful people to follow on social media. Finding joyful songs that lift us up and help us to dance and to feel, but to be intentional about what's one thing that I could either start doing or stop doing that could help me to experience more joy in life. How about you? Do you have any final

Natalie King:

Oh, well, equally to echo the, I love following you on Instagram and your podcast, so yes, for my listeners, please do check MaryAnn out. It's the kind of inspiring content that helps the world be a brighter, better place and for us to step more into our power. And I think I wanna reinforce what you've said about intention because I think that really is the key. Because when we put this on our radar as important, I hope that people after listening to this conversation can see, ah, it's a disservice to not go in the direction of my joy. We are here, we have one precious life, and part of that life is to experience and to know what brings us joy. It is such a worthy investment of your time, and not only that, that investment which you might feel, feels indulgent, I promise you, is not because you come to life, your joy filled life in whichever degree you find, you are able. To be much more of service and to shine more like the sunflower. So, um, yeah. I have loved this conversation and I hope the listeners have too.

MaryAnn Walker:

Yeah. Well thank you so much and yeah, don't let a lack of creating joy. Be one of your regrets at the end of life. You can choose into it today.

Natalie King:

Beautiful.

MaryAnn Walker:

All right, well, thank you so much for being here, everybody, and we'll see you next time.

Natalie King:

Take care. Thank you. Bye.